My Perfect Path

When No Clear Path Exists, You Create Your Own

• Daniel Koo

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What happens when you approach life with no boundaries? When you see the entire world as your playground and every experience as an opportunity to learn? Rawan's extraordinary journey provides a masterclass in creating a life and career defined by passion rather than convention.<br><br>From her earliest years surrounded by artist parents who responded to her creative impulses with "Why not?" to her global education spanning continents, Rawan cultivated a truly cosmopolitan outlook that's guided her varied and impactful career. Her path cuts across traditional sectors—from advising Korea's National Assembly to working with the UN Security Council, from financial institutions to founding her own publishing company meaningfully named "Illuminating Every Path."<br><br>The wisdom Rawan shares comes from concrete experience, not theory. When feeling uncertain about your direction, she suggests it might be because there is no established path—and that's your opportunity to create one. "Live your life like a buffet," she advises, sampling widely before committing deeply. This approach has special relevance in our rapidly changing world where careers span longer than ever before.<br><br>What sets Rawan apart isn't just her impressive resume, but her perspective on success. She distinguishes between authentic connections and merely transactional networking. She values knowledge not as an end but as fuel for creativity and impact. Most importantly, she emphasizes that loving what you do—from the smallest tasks to the grandest visions—is essential for sustained fulfillment.<br><br>Whether you're just starting your professional journey or considering a significant pivot, this conversation offers both practical guidance and profound inspiration. Listen now to discover how embracing a cosmopolitan mindset might illuminate your own perfect path forward.

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Rawon:

So, for example, taking an example of Korea, you know we are already experiencing aged society. Then think about this. There's going to be a higher possibility for you to work longer too. Then what questions should you ask to yourself? The first one is this Do I really like this is? Do I really like this? I mean, during your early 20s, mid 20s and up to just 20s, I think you should do jobs where it works that you're super good at. But going beyond just good at it, I think you should love something. Finding what you really love is really important. But then people will come to me and ask another question how do you find what you love? Right, there's one answer Experience as many as possible.

Daniel Koo:

Hey, welcome back to my Perfect Path. For those of you who are new, I'm your host, daniel Koo, and I welcome you to season two. For me, at large, pivotal moments of my life, such as applying to new colleges, applying to new jobs or determining what next career move is right for me I spend time researching and finding mentorship to determine what was the best path for me. I knew that this struggle was not isolated to me. Everyone struggles with this, simply because we cannot predict the future. However, I found something that is second best to predicting the future it's learning from those ahead of our career and from those who've seen more and experienced more. After all, there are not that many problems that have not been solved yet. If you've ever felt unsure about your next career move, you're in the right place. Why Not? Was the common response she got from her pianist mother and opera singer father.

Daniel Koo:

When Rawan, today's guest, was growing up, starting from her childhood of creative freedom, an incredible career was just beginning to sprout up. Starting from her childhood of creative freedom, an incredible career was just beginning to sprout. Today's episode is titled my Cosmopolitan Path because our guest's journey spans continents and disciplines Her contributions to South Korea's National Assembly and the UN Security Council speak for itself Today. Raon is founder of Mogilby Publishing, meaning illuminating every path in Korean, works with AI, edtech, and advises public institutions and startups. A published author of three books, she communicates fluently in four languages, while pursuing her consistent mission of creating value through work related to world society and humanity. In our conversation, rawon shares insights about authentic relationships over transactional networking, approaching life like a buffet to discover your passions and how sometimes not having a clear path forward allows you to create your own. I think you'll find her story both inspiring and practical. Let's get into it, rawan. Welcome to my Perfect Path. I'm thrilled to have you here.

Rawon:

Thank you so much for having me here, Daniel.

Daniel Koo:

Yeah, it's such an honor to have someone like you having me here, daniel. Yeah, it's such an honor to have someone like you. I think, out of the many people I talked to, you have such a great resume. There's so many twists and turns and I think just from our previous talks, it's very intentional, it's very trailblazing.

Rawon:

I am.

Daniel Koo:

And I think that we have so much to learn today.

Rawon:

Thank you so much yeah.

Daniel Koo:

So let's kind of dive right in. Sure, what does a day in the life look like for you?

Rawon:

These days I feel like sometimes I feel like I'm a teenager, Sometimes I'm like a baby, Sometimes I like a mom or like grandma. It's because these days I'm doing something new every day. So, for example, right now I'm working at a startup called Beyond Knowledge, and our firm's main purpose is to make knowledge content that's just not ordinary, but that just goes beyond the knowledge that we have. And to do that, our group thought that it's really important to talk to many people. So even today in the morning, I mean I had some meeting with some friends at the Bain Company. So when I talk with them I feel like I'm a consultant and I'm meeting great people. But tomorrow I'll be having a meeting with a 14-year-old girl, and when I have this conversation with the teenager, I really have to act like a teenager and think like a teenager. So every day these days, it's so different. Yeah.

Daniel Koo:

So day-to-day is very dynamic, is what I'm seeing. I think part of that is because you're also involved in a lot of different things at the same time. Yes, could you tell us a little bit about your publishing company as well and what your role is there?

Rawon:

Oh okay. So I'm actually very proud of myself because my publishing company is the first company that I built in my life. And just to give you a little story about my own publishing company, the company's name is called Mogilbi. In Korean it actually stands for 모든 길을 비추는, which means in English illuminating every path. So actually in 2021, I used to live in New York, but I came back to Korea. And when I came back to Korea, I was pretty sad to look at the society that I was living in, because throughout my life, since my age of 20, I've been actually doing a lot of educational volunteer works. And then, when I came back to Korea in 2021, I called a couple of my pupils and then I was asking hey guys, the teacher is here, I'm back, so how about a dinner together? But then I wasn't able to get in touch with two students, but later I learned that one was missing.

Rawon:

And the other one was yeah, she passed away. And usually my students are North Korean refugee students or students who don't have any guardians or parents. So really to them I was like their sister and mother. So hearing their story during the dinner time, I learned that not many companies were actually willing to take my students as their employees because of their pronunciation, accents and different cultural background. So I thought, how about I make my own company and then, if they work with me at least for an year, maybe they can get a job? Yeah, that was the first idea of having this publishing company.

Daniel Koo:

Right. As we know, the first step is usually the most difficult.

Rawon:

Yes, because you have no experience.

Daniel Koo:

Absolutely why would someone pick you? And that's tough for a lot of companies to kind of oversee.

Rawon:

Yes, exactly. But there's a reason why I chose the publishing company because I had so many things to say and to do that. The best way is sometimes to write a book or give a lecture to many audience, and two of my students were really good at editing and drawing. So I was thinking, if I become a writer and then if my student edits a book and then if my other students draw something, then maybe we can make a company and then we can sell books. So that's how it all began.

Daniel Koo:

And it seemed like you were very prolific as well. You've already written I think was it more than three books.

Rawon:

Yes, thankfully it's three books.

Daniel Koo:

And one of them was recently recommended by the Washington Post editor-in-chief for the Seoul and Tokyo office.

Rawon:

Yes, correct.

Daniel Koo:

That's absolutely amazing. You're not only working at a startup, but you also are maintaining your own publishing company. Is there anything else that you're doing at the moment? I know you're doing some charity work as well, or social work. Could you tell us a little bit about that?

Rawon:

I'm really grateful that people love me. You know there's a thing called MBTI in Korea and it's super, super popular among people. You know like whenever you interview someone, like the first question you would ask is oh, what is your MBTI?

Daniel Koo:

It's a very popular icebreaking.

Rawon:

Yes, absolutely so. For example, in my case, my type is totally a businessman type and also a leader and a diplomat type. So I'm a very diplomatic person and I like meeting new people. So, on a side project, what I'm doing is actually doing some consulting works for foreign policy and for the government, and also at the same time I get some offers from the big companies about giving a lecture to many employees. So that's what I do.

Daniel Koo:

There's so many things that you're doing right now and I think, as we'll learn in the episode today, there's so many things that you're doing right now and I think, as we'll learn, in the episode today. There's so many things you have done as well.

Daniel Koo:

I'm really excited to kind of dig through that and be able to basically learn and help inform ourselves On the decisions we have to make in the future. So I do want to talk a little bit about your childhood and how you grew up. I think that in and of itself is a huge story. I want to know if that kind of dictates your future. And if someone had a similar childhood maybe they can relate. So tell us a little bit about your childhood and how you grew up.

Rawon:

My mom always tells me that I barely cried when I was a baby, so she told me that it was actually pretty easy to take care.

Rawon:

You were a good kid I was a good kid, yeah, so I think I was a very happy person since my childhood, but thankfully, I think that was possible because of my parents. So my parents are actually musicians and artists. So my parents are actually musicians and artists. So my mom is a pianist and my dad is an opera singer, at the same time opera director and also at the same time professor. So he's got lots of jobs and, luckily, thanks to that culture during my childhood, you know like there are some traits about artists.

Rawon:

You know like if you want to try something, then artists would usually say, ah, okay, you can try that, why not? So I think the sentence why not was the most common sentence that I heard when I was young. So even growing up, during my childhood, I remember I did lots of laboratory experiments and also, I don't know, I was just a challenger type. So I challenged everything, Like one day in the morning, if you just suddenly want to become a cook, then you cook, and then all of a sudden, if you want to play the guitar, then you become a guitarist, like that. So it was, I would say, the keyword freedom. It's a main keyword that really describes my childhood and thanks to them I was able to travel almost every country in Europe able to travel almost every country in Europe and that really broadened my horizon when I look at the world. So from that time I think I became a cosmopolitan. Yeah.

Daniel Koo:

And the word cosmopolitan is going to be very important very soon.

Rawon:

Yes.

Daniel Koo:

I do want to ask would you describe yourself as a creative person, as a kid?

Rawon:

I do want to ask would you describe yourself as a creative person? As a kid, I thought that was normal for everyone, but at the end of the day, all the good feedback I got was oh, Rowan, you're very creative. Yeah, so I didn't know about that. But actually yesterday and three days ago my mom was cleaning the room. Yesterday and three days ago my mom was cleaning the room and then we found out this huge box that's full of my old paintings. And then when I looked at the painting that I did in the very old days, I noticed that I always cut the paper and then put a straw on the images so that I could make a moving image.

Daniel Koo:

Oh, wow.

Rawon:

Yeah, I know right, that's very creative, I know.

Daniel Koo:

That's very creative. I must say yeah.

Rawon:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I really thought that was normal and I thought every kid would do that. But then no, it was really me that was normal and I thought every kid would do that. But then no, it was really me who did that. And then I remember that all the teachers that taught me said oh, you're actually very creative. How about you do some paintings or artworks when you grow up? But the funny thing is that I never wanted to become an artist because I know the life of artists. So, for some reason, rather than becoming an artist, I always wanted to be a person engaging with topics, with international affairs and just making a better world.

Daniel Koo:

And, as we'll learn throughout the episode, just making a better world and, as we'll learn throughout the episode, one of the adjectives I want to describe you is limitless, and there's so many categories that you touch throughout your career, that I can't help but think that that all started when you were young and you were raised in a very open environment where you were allowed to be creative and think about different topics.

Daniel Koo:

Yes, so we named the episode today my Cosmopolitan Path. Circling back to the word that you mentioned, Could you share with us why you chose that adjective and the inspiration behind it?

Rawon:

I would say I think I'm a very cosmopolitan person but at the same time international. Because, like you said, I think I'm a very cosmopolitan person but at the same time international because, like you said, I think I'm pretty limitless. I try not to set any boundaries in my life. So even now I feel like I'm in a Cosmo of Daniels because I'm having this wonderful conversation with you. I'm having this wonderful conversation with you and, as I told you before, you know, like during our pre-interview, I really do feel that when I'm meeting someone, I really do see the person as a living history. You know, you're bringing your past, present and future. That's why, when I'm having this conversation with that counterpart, I feel like I'm in her or his world.

Rawon:

So I feel very welcomed by their Cosmo. So each time I visit their Cosmo, I become very happy. But at the same time, the world is cosmopolitan itself. Right? I'm a person who studied international affairs, foreign policy, so whenever I visit countries, I feel like I'm their national. I feel like I do have their passport, I don't know. I just feel that I want to be part of their community and their society and the world and the culture. So that's why I put it cosmopolitan, because throughout my life I really want to visit as many places as possible and also explore their world.

Daniel Koo:

I think part of that as well being able to see someone's past, present and future. You have to be open and willing to share and I really thank you for participating on this podcast because you're willing to share your cosmos with us to learn. Let's go back to your childhood, where you're living, to share your cosmos with us to learn. Let's go back to kind of like your childhood, where you're living in multiple countries. I know you've also been in Southern California. Yeah, Could you tell us a little bit about your time there?

Rawon:

Oh sure, that was actually one of the best times I had in my life. So I was in the city called Irvine throughout my teenage. So I think it was like I think from 13 to 16 or something, I don't know. I think I'm getting older, so I keep forgetting the age. But yeah, I spent my middle school time there and also a couple of years of high school there, and I went there because of my father's occupation. So, like I told you before, my father is a professor and thanks to that, we were able to experience a program called Exchange Professor Program.

Rawon:

So we went to Irvine and then there I couldn't speak English at all. Yeah, I mean, I loved Korea so much so I thought, why do I need to study English? I mean, I'm good at Korean, so why do I need to do that? That was the first remark I said to my parents. I said to my parents, but then, when I landed in Irvine, I was thinking like, oh my God, this city is so amazing. I think I can restart my new life here. I see, yeah, and then you know, like, just challenge everything here. So there I was able to meet different people coming from different cultures and backgrounds. I mean in Korea it's pretty hard to meet American friends, japanese friends and Chinese friends and Mexican friends too, but in the States I was able to learn English, spanish and Japanese and Chinese at the same time, just to you know like make good relationship with your friends.

Daniel Koo:

So it seems like you were exposed to a very diverse kind of population set. Yes, Also, I do want to mention you speak so many languages.

Rawon:

I believe so.

Daniel Koo:

You speak English, korean, french and Spanish.

Rawon:

Actually, in terms of speaking, I do speak Korean, English, Japanese and Spanish, but when it comes to reading the newspaper, I think I'm pretty good at French Spanish, yeah.

Daniel Koo:

Do you feel like your interest in languages and kind of different countries kind of started at this point of your life, or was it before or after?

Rawon:

Oh, I think my time in Irvine actually gave me huge inspiration to just purely enjoy the beauty of foreign languages. So, for example, in Korea, if you want to say hi, you can actually say did you have lunch? That's part of greetings too, right? And also, if you want to say hello, in Japanese, it is konnichiwa, but actually kon is this and nichi is they and wa is like is or am in English. So it's basically asking how is your day Right? This is so interesting, right? So if you learn foreign languages, then you get to explore their mindsets and thoughts and how they actually think. So I was amused by the beauty of the foreign languages. So that's how I got into learning different cultures and international topics.

Daniel Koo:

After that you moved back to Korea and you spend your high school years in Korea. What was kind of going through your mind at that point, Like were you just trying to get to college, or like did you have kind of an interest in mind, Did you have a passion at that point in your life?

Rawon:

Oh no, that was actually. You know, like in life, you have your zenith and you have your nether. I would say those times in Korea I would describe it as my nether, Because I was super good at studying before, but then it was pretty hard to adjust to a new life. As I came back, I actually went to a high school called Hanyang Foreign Language High School and as you know, it's one of the most great high schools.

Daniel Koo:

Usually the foreign high schools, usually the foreign high schools in Korea are very competitive. The studying is very intense. A lot of people who graduate will actually go to great colleges, yes, and go on to have great alumni connections as well.

Rawon:

I think that's all part of it, but it is really intense, it is intense. Connections as well I think that's all part of it, but it is really intense, it is intense. So when I got to Hanyang Foreign Language High School, I really loved the fact that I could speak in different languages. That was actually my favorite part. But then, other than that, I feel like, oh my God, I think I'm a machine like studying just for the college entrance.

Rawon:

But then, luckily, my parents were not that type, so I was able to explore many things. So, for example, uh, one day I just wanted to try going for paris in france. Just, I don't know why, you know, like you have your adolescent time, you just wanted to go there. Yeah, I just wanted to go there for some, without any reason. Yeah, without any reason. So I thought about a couple of ways to do that. And then one day I saw this huge advertisement on online saying that anyone can participate for the international advertisement festival that is hosted in France can. So I saw this banner and then I thought like voila, this is totally for me. Like that year I was actually 17, going up to the senior year, but then I don't know why, but I just wanted to try that and then, luckily, I became the finalist going for that festival. So there I was able to really just experiment my thoughts and then asking whether if it's really workable not just for me but also with the entire society.

Daniel Koo:

Just to give some context around how for lack of a better word insane this was, because in high school you know that's kind of the peak of study, right, and I don't think anyone can imagine going to a different country to do anything other than study for the final entrance exam or college entrance exam. So I want to note how adventurous that was and risky that was to a lot of parents. Did you still? Your parents were very supportive of this.

Rawon:

Oh, absolutely, actually, I, I actually woke my parents up at 2 am. Yeah, when I saw that banner I didn't even knock on the door. I just, you know, like, I just got into their room and then, you know, like, waking them up and saying, hey, parents, I have this amazing news I found a way to go to France. How about I participate? For this festival? It's a super, super, super great festival that everyone joins from different countries and I think I should be the one to do that.

Rawon:

And then I remember my dad was like, ah, okay, whatever, do it if you want. And my mom was like she's very kind and considerate. So she was saying do you really want to do that? This is your final year for your high school, but if you do that, you know, like she explained some of the risks that I could experience, but I don't know why. But I just wanted to try. And then I just responded I really want to try. And then my mom became so supportive of this challenge. But then one day we got a call from our high school. The principal called what?

Daniel Koo:

are you doing? Yeah, what are you doing? Yeah, what are you?

Rawon:

doing you gotta prepare for the college entrance and then my parents were like not everyone has to go to college.

Daniel Koo:

My, maybe my daughter is different that's very open-minded, especially being korean parents. Yeah, that tend to be very focused and very caring about their children's kind of future.

Rawon:

Yes.

Daniel Koo:

Which is why I think they may sometimes be very intense about studying and things like that. Yeah, it's very important in Korea, in Korean culture as well. Absolutely, I'm still amazed by your parents' openness to allow you to try this. What do you think are some things that you've learned throughout that experience and what did you kind of take on from?

Rawon:

that During the process of making this, you know, like a concept note for the commercial that I had to submit for the festival I learned that even artists and even producers have to be very, very wise and smart. Like back in the old days I thought, you know, like people who are not interested in studying were aiming to become an artist or something like that, but then at the end of the day, no, actually they're the ones who have the deepest level of knowledge and then they're so wise and I think that wisdom helps them think more creative than the normal citizens. So during that process I learned that I think maybe there's a reason why people actually go to college, and I wanted to go to college too all a sudden because I really wanted to grasp more ideas and then collect more creative topics so that I make better commercials or media for my audience. So I think that was a starting point for me to engage deeply into studying.

Daniel Koo:

Interesting point for me to engage deeply into studying. Interesting so before maybe you thought college was optional or you didn't necessarily think that was the path for you.

Rawon:

No, not at all.

Daniel Koo:

But then when you saw those people kind of create things that were very relevant and impactful and you realized those people all went to school and you realize that you want to study more and kind of learn the value of certain education.

Rawon:

Yes, absolutely so. For example, I mean, you don't need to go to college. If you're so passionate about learning by yourself and if you're so confident in collecting lots of information from the books or YouTube channels or any programs that you're exploring, then I think is it really necessary to go to college? That's an opinion I have, but at that time I knew myself. I knew that I needed someone who could help me gain some great wisdom and knowledge, and I thought that perhaps college could do that for me.

Daniel Koo:

You know, by paying tuition, exactly, yeah, so I think that was awfully humble humble of you actually, oh thank you. Because at that moment it's kind of hard to change that kind of mindset. But it seems like you realized the value of education and you wanted to kind of search for something more like you kind of mindset. But it seems like you realized the value of education and you wanted to kind of search for something more.

Daniel Koo:

Like you kind of realized there was something beyond what you could personally pick up and grab. Okay, so now you go to Ewha University and you did your bachelor's and your master's there. What did you study and why did you choose that?

Rawon:

Okay, so actually I studied international affairs. To be more specific, I studied international law and diplomacy and foreign policy during my undergraduate years, and Yihua was a school my parents strongly recommended. One of the special points about Yihua is that it's all girls' university, so the official title is Ewha Women's University. It's the biggest university for females in Korea, and my mom was especially interested in Ewha because she's from a different university. But then all of a sudden she came to me and then asking whether I would be interested in applying for this school, and then I asked her why. And then she said you're such an independent person. And she said I think IHWA girls are very confident and very independent, so why don't you make friends there?

Rawon:

and you know, just live a good life there. So I really loved my times at Ewha and the best thing I loved the most was a program called Knowledge Frontier Program. So it's like one professor has to take care of eight students. So it's like you have Only eight.

Rawon:

Eight students. Yeah, you have to have dinner or lunch with your supervising professor, like almost every day. Yeah, then, if you keep doing that, you feel like you're having dinner with a family member, right? And luckily I had an amazing professor and he was actually the one to recommend the themes that are covered in politics and foreign policy. At first I wanted to become a lawyer, but then my professor said no, I don't think so. How about you make laws instead? Because lawyers are engaging in to certain events after those events happen, so it's like an ex-post job, but politics and lawmaking jobs are usually ex ante, so you can prevent something from happening badly, right. So that was the idea I got from my supervisor, and that experience was amazing.

Daniel Koo:

Interesting. I think that's a very unique way of looking at it. You're saying that for lawyers, they're actually people who handle cases that have already happened. It's kind of like deciding what just happened, actually like kind of defining what just happened. Yeah, whereas with politics and law, you're trying to get ahead of it and you, you want to.

Daniel Koo:

You're the people that are creating those events yes, in a way um, so I think that's actually really good for us to hear, because many people struggle with like what, what to what, to choose with their major I see um their careers and to be able to know this ahead of time. I think valuable, absolutely.

Rawon:

Just to give you a couple of advice for some people who are struggling to find their own path. I mean, I don't think I have found my own path yet. That's why I'm being very cosmopolitan. But this is one good advice I got from my supervisors and mentors, and my parents too If you find the one, you don't hesitate, you just get in, like the one I found during my high school years. I don't know why, but I just wanted to become like a godmother in the media set. You know, that's why I participated for the advertisement film festival. But all of a sudden I got interested in international affairs and there I was able to meet lots of people and by working with them I learned that maybe I'm a person who make things happen. I'm a person who make things happen, not just protecting it at the end. So if you're really passionate about making something or creating something, then just become a creator, not just YouTube, but you can create the values that were not existing in the past. You can become a new path finder in tree blazer.

Daniel Koo:

So yeah, yeah, one thing that I do want to tell this story this was just yesterday that happened, but while we were eating. You mentioned that. You know, when you feel like you're lost because you have too many paths, it may be because there is no path. Maybe there is no path that really calls out to you, and I've loved that saying. I think that's going to impact my life and how I think about my career going forwards, because it seems like when you're really passionate about something and you love something, you know immediately it's not something that's. There's no hesitation.

Daniel Koo:

There's no hesitation at all, Really thank you for saying that I think you should say it again somehow, but that's something that I think is something I'm learning from your kind of journey and your insights here Going forwards. After your education at Yiha, what's something that you dove into?

Rawon:

During my undergraduate years at Ewha, I was exposed to many international affairs themes and chances that are relevant to that. So the first thing I did was for the G20 Seoul Summit and then after that, my supervisor recommended a position at a political party in Korea. There I was able to see the world, really the world that I have never known before. So, although I'm Korean, that was the first Korea I saw in entirety.

Daniel Koo:

I would say so you mean in the context of the entire world.

Rawon:

Yes, exactly. And then after that I thought I'm a person who's more interested in international politics than domestic politics, so I decided to study international development at IHWA again for my master's degree, and then there, because I had an amazing professor his name is Im-mi Kim. He's actually the president of IHWA Women's University at the moment. Oh, wow, yeah, wow. And thanks to her I was able to engage in many, many foreign aid policy projects and I was able to write many articles and books with her too. So that actually dove me into the field of international development further, and thanks to that I traveled to Ethiopia and Cambodia and then really saw how foreign aid projects were running in those countries.

Daniel Koo:

I just want to note how big of a deal this is actually To be part of the G20 International Summit is. I mean, it's one of the most biggest international events in Korea that can be held and I think it was partly due to having such a good mentor and having a close relationship with them. Yes, did you do anything specific to cultivate this relationship?

Rawon:

or was this kind?

Daniel Koo:

of natural.

Rawon:

I ate a lot. I'm a foodist, I love foods and whenever having dinner with them, I think I was the only one eating the remaining bread and just you know like finishing every dish they ordered. So you know like, when you visit grandfather's or grandmother's house, you know like they love it if you finish everything, yeah. And I was that student. So they loved me a lot just because I ate a lot and I think thanks to that, they asked lots of questions to me and I also asked lots of questions to them.

Daniel Koo:

So I think that's how we built our rapport people separately as well, or like did they reach out to you? I'm wondering if there's something that we can do in our lives to cultivate a similar relationship.

Rawon:

Oh, I love things that are very genuine and authentic, so I try not to make any, you know, like artificial networks. So it's like this I totally believe in the power of intuition. So, for example, when you're looking at a person B, if you like that person, then just go talk to her or him, yeah, but if you don't feel like to do that, you don't need to.

Daniel Koo:

No need to force it.

Rawon:

Yeah, you don't need to force it. I think every human being is born with their own instinct and intuition and I truly believe that everyone has their own frequency. You know the vibration, so if that matches and if that resonates each other, then you're just automatically, you know, like thinking that, voila, I should go talk and then become a friend.

Daniel Koo:

So so you kind of approached it in a very authentic, genuine way, where it's not really oh, I just I need to talk to more people. I just I need to get in contact with these people and I think that really perhaps helped in the way. I'm sure they felt it as well that it was very genuine.

Rawon:

One thing I want to mention is this you know, like in the beginning I told you that these days I'm talking to teenagers or people in their 60s or 50s, or even like CEO level. If you have an intention, I don't think that works. Yeah. So, for example, let's say you're studying something. Let's say you're studying finance, so you want to get a job at a financial institution. That's why maybe you could have this feeling that, oh, I think I got to talk to some people who are working in those areas. But if that intention is mainly to get a job, I don't think that network is going to end in a good way, because everything you do is human-based. So you're a human and I'm a human being too. If we have a good conversation, then we are happy, right. But if you only talk about the things that you want, then don't you think that you're being used and exploited by someone? I don't think anyone should have that feeling, and once someone has that feeling, then I think that relationship is not.

Daniel Koo:

It's already kind of.

Rawon:

Yeah, it's already gone.

Daniel Koo:

It's already gone.

Rawon:

Yeah.

Daniel Koo:

I think that's very good insight on how to approach networking. I think sometimes the term networking itself makes it really weird because it seems like you have to force the relationship right. But it seems like we should kind of approach it in a more genuine way and in a more human way.

Rawon:

Absolutely.

Daniel Koo:

More or less the correct way to expand your network.

Rawon:

I actually do host lots of, lots of networking events and meeting events for undergraduate students and also graduate school students, because I know that they want some opportunities right. But what I mean by networking and meeting events, I actually do care a lot about the quality, and what I mean by the quality is the quality of the mission that you're thinking. So, for example, like I told you before, if your aim is only to get a good job and earn decent money, then I highly urge you to seek Warren Buffett or anyone who's really good at making money. But the network itself, I think it should be very value-oriented. So I know that, daniel, you're doing this to introduce lots of contents for those who are actually struggling a lot about their career. If you host that networking event with that value, I think lots of people are going to come in. But if that's only for profit or just for yourself, I don't think people are going to share the authentic value of it.

Daniel Koo:

I think focusing on the quality is actually a very big thing we can take away. I've been to many networking events that seem to not have a very strong mission or a very strong idea and those networking events tend to not really they don't really give you a lot of results. Actually, you go there, you meet 20 plus people and you're sure that you've had a conversation with them, but you don't remember anything.

Daniel Koo:

And you know, really talk to the people ever again and I think kind of making sure you have the quality up to standard is important there. So let's go into the next few things that you've done in politics. So you've worked in a political party as an internship and you've also worked at the research institution regarding international politics. Yes, could you tell us about how competitive it was for you to get in and also how you chose this specific institution?

Rawon:

I didn't choose the path, chose me. No, I love that.

Daniel Koo:

Yeah, you love that.

Rawon:

Yeah, I think I make that slogan for you. So, for example, you know, like I told you about the lots of research projects that I was doing with my supervisor and then, while I was doing that, she was asking whether I would be interested in working as a full-time researcher for the institute that she founded and I was thinking, why not, yeah? So I just got in naturally, and then it wasn't competitive at all. So it only actually becomes competitive if you really have fierce passion. And then you know this mental stress that makes you think that you have to do this. But in my case I was very relaxed and I didn't even think about going for that research institution. The leader just said Do you want to?

Daniel Koo:

do it.

Rawon:

And I said yes, why not?

Daniel Koo:

And I'm sure if this was the wrong opportunity for you, you would have said no, but what were some things that made you say yes? So was it the people, was it the topic, or was it the institution itself?

Rawon:

I was very drawn to a couple of points on a contract. It said that I have to travel a lot and I was like, damn, you can travel a lot.

Daniel Koo:

For free. For free, while getting paid.

Rawon:

Yes, and I thought that was perfect. And you know, like I told you before, I traveled almost every country in Europe and then I spent my teenage life in the States. But at the time, during my early to mid-20s, I was thinking I really want to go to developing countries and then see how things are working there and how people live there. As a person who has studied international development, I had this desire to look at reality from the true reality, not just from the textbook that I was reading. So while I was reading the contract, I was really, really attracted to points you know, like stating that you have to travel a lot, and in my mind I was like thank you so much. So, as a young person, to go to developing countries and the third world, you've got to get lots of injections.

Daniel Koo:

Immunizations and things like that.

Rawon:

Yeah, and I was thinking, oh, I think I can handle this during my 20s, but if I have to do that, you know, like after you know, like the age of 50 or 55, I don't think I can do it.

Daniel Koo:

Part of it was because you were young, you knew you could kind of handle the.

Rawon:

Absolutely. The sacrifice that comes with traveling a lot and going through these developing countries yeah, I thought, uh, I thought it was totally okay to not not take shower for three days, and sometimes in one of the one of the examples that I had in ethiopia was that although you shampoo your hair for like five times, still the dust would come out.

Rawon:

And even your nose, still the dust would come out. And one time I was really laughing out loud in the shower room because I cleaned myself so much, but then still the dust come out. So, but still. That experience was so interesting to me, yeah, so Kind of going forwards as well.

Daniel Koo:

I know you worked at international security and defense policy related jobs in the future. How did the previous job kind of help you for the next one?

Rawon:

Not even the next one actually, because you know like if you study international law and diplomacy, then you get to explore both themes simultaneously, so international development on one side and international security on the other side. So it was pretty easy for me to prepare for every topic that I have to deal with in the theme under the umbrella of international affairs, but just to share some of the stories. While traveling in some developing countries I was thinking maybe I should study international security more deeply because thinking about the world, sometimes the real power, politics, rules everything. That's how I actually began to gain more United Nations or the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, but then, luckily, I got a call from the National Assembly's Speaker's Office working as a foreign affairs advisor and policy analyst.

Daniel Koo:

So there you kind of had the opportunity to be a political aid, being an advisor, and from what we talked before you created many drafts for the bill like the first drafts. For you to work there. Did that feel like you were finally making actual change? Did that feel like very different? Because I think previously it was a lot about kind of exploring and investigating what the real world looks like, and to me it looks like there was a transition here where it feels like you're implementing change. How was that kind of transition for you?

Rawon:

I think it actually depends on what perspectives you have. So, for example, to me, the definition of change actually covers two realms. So, for example, the first one would be the internal change I have and the other one is a change that you really see in reality. From my early to mid-20s, I think I had a lot of internal changes. So, to put it that way, I already saw many changes.

Rawon:

But while working at the National Assembly, it was actually a perfect time to talk with many people.

Rawon:

So, for example, if you're just a researcher or an analyst on one topic, then there's a tendency that you only talk to a couple of people who only do that right.

Rawon:

But the thing about politics and policies is that you got to meet people who actually disagree with you too. Interesting, yeah. So in the beginning it was pretty hard for me to adjust to a new life like that. You know, like when you're making a policy or bills, you try to talk with people who agree with you so that you've passed the bill very fast. But if you keep doing that, you're actually ruining the society. So there I was thinking maybe the change I should have is talking with many people who share totally different views and perspectives. Wow, yeah, so by just talking with them, you already witnessed the change inside of you. And the power of bills and laws is that it actually takes some time to see the real change, but still just the fact that you issued a bill makes some people very happy and confident about their life, so that's some kind of changes in the real impact I saw.

Daniel Koo:

That's absolutely fantastic. I think it's a very important point that you put out that oftentimes you know you have to meet people that are willing to challenge you and have really good arguments against actually.

Daniel Koo:

Because you know, once you listen to those people, you're able to improve your idea and your resolution and that way you can make more people happy and you can help more people expand the scope of your influence. I think that's something we can. I don't know how we can implement that in our regular lives, but to me it seems like when you have an idea for a company or anything, you should always look for ways to improve and look for people who are willing to tell you what's wrong with it as well, which doesn't mean you know you should feel discouraged. But in the theme of kind of growth, I think that's really important.

Rawon:

In terms of growth. Since you mentioned about it, to apply this logic in reality and also in your life, the best way is to say this sentence Can you help me? I don't know, I'm a person who needs lots of help. I only know this perspective. But if I work with you, I think I can grow and also, at the same time, I think the entire society will grow. So can you be my partner? That was the approach I took.

Daniel Koo:

Wow, that's a very humble approach and I love it.

Rawon:

But this is true because I need so many help, and then I just wanted to be honest as much as possible to my counterparts.

Daniel Koo:

I think, as much as we like to shine ourselves, I think that's a very important point as well to make sure you get the help when you need it. Yes, and you don't have to do everything alone, and that's something that I'm truly learning from this conversation as well.

Daniel Koo:

So, right after your work with the National Assembly in Korea, you went to Columbia to get your master's. Yes, what were some of your decision criteria to get your master's in the States? I think there could have been so many different factors going in, like how did you choose the timing?

Rawon:

I see that's actually one of the most popular questions I get from lots of people Like I mean, if I continued my career at the National Assembly, then I could have done something much fancier than now, according to some people.

Rawon:

But I actually thought in a different way. So, for example, the timing chose me and the school chose me and the path chose me again. And the reason I say this is that while working at the National Assembly, I noticed one pattern among Korean foreign policies. For example, when you look at the white paper, it's like a government paper published by the US government, especially in terms of foreign policy and defense policy. They actually make grand strategies that target the world, not just the United States. But if you look at the white paper published by the Korean government, there's only this word the strategy of Korea.

Rawon:

I was frustrated. Why do I need to only look at the peninsula? I actually want to look at Asia and, going beyond Asia, why can I not look at Africa and the Middle East and South America? I want to make a grand strategy for my country, but if the Korean government and Korea still just claims that it's part of Asia, it's going to be just part of Asia forever. And I wanted to break that limit by myself and thinking that at the time, I was having this idea that the United States is a perfect country to study the grand strategy. So I decided to go to the States, and the reason for attending Columbia University is because, actually, my older sister lived in New York for a long year. So in terms of, you know, like rent, money-wise, my parents wanted me to go to New York too, and also, at the same time, I mean New York, it's something.

Daniel Koo:

I mean, it's a place to be.

Rawon:

Yeah, it's a place to be, so I thought about going there. I actually hesitated in between Harvard and Columbia University, but then, indeed, an interesting episode is that I actually did some exchange program with Harvard University during my undergraduate years. So since I already built some experience there, I was thinking maybe New York is the thing for this time. So I chose New York, columbia University and the timing. I thought I had to do that at that time before getting too old.

Daniel Koo:

I think it's kind of the similar theme that we talked about, where the timing was very clear for you. You felt the need to do it and you felt like the path was leading there. There wasn't as much hesitation or too much overthinking.

Rawon:

it seemed like no hesitation at all, although I had my ex-boyfriend at the time. We were both worried about the future, but then still, I was just having this belief that if that path is my path, I think I would just go without any hesitation, and at the time, for some reason, I just really, really wanted to try that path. So, without any hesitation, I chose Columbia University, and I think this is one of the greatest decisions I've ever made in my life.

Daniel Koo:

I also thought it was really interesting how you said you've been to Harvard through the exchange program during your undergrad. I think a lot of people would go back to Harvard because they're familiar with it, but I think it's an interesting choice that you've made, that you chose to go somewhere you haven't been and I think that's part of like, part of you and your personality to do that.

Rawon:

I mean, first of all, no offense to Harvard community. Of course, of course, but first of all, it was super cold in Cambridge in winter. I mean New York is super cold too.

Daniel Koo:

Pretty similar too.

Rawon:

But still, I mean, the amount of the snow they have is totally different. It's another level.

Daniel Koo:

Funny story. My sister went to Tufts University, which is also in the Boston area. She's doing her med school in Boston University right now. She's lived there for 10 years now. She always tells me she wants to escape Boston because of the snow. But she's failing to do so. She's always brought back to Boston.

Rawon:

Maybe Boston chose her then I think so yeah.

Daniel Koo:

So, after getting your master's, what was your next step? I know you love New York and you want to stay there.

Rawon:

Not at all. Oh, not at all, yeah, not at all. Actually, new York was just for like five years, and seven years at the maximum. Because, I mean, I love Korea. I do believe that every citizen is born with a reason.

Rawon:

And now, thinking about my life, when I think about myself, I thought about these questions. First of all, why was I born in Korea? Second, and people and the world. So, because I knew myself very much, I knew that, after gaining great insights and experience in New York, my original plan was to come back to Korea and work for the National Assembly or the government, especially in terms of foreign policy or defense policy.

Rawon:

But at the end of the day, after my life in New York, when I came back, like I told you before about how I actually established my own publishing company, throughout my life I really, really worked hard as a public servant to serve the nation and people that I love. But when I looked at the people that I serve, especially my students, they didn't look happy at all. Yeah, that's why I thought, look happy at all. Yeah, that's why I thought maybe there are more ways to make people happy rather than just serving for the government works or the legislative works. So things I'm doing now is more about giving hopeful messages to the public, and apparently people love this more Interesting.

Daniel Koo:

I think, that's partially because I don't collect their texts, yeah, so so I see so there was kind of a transition for you, kind of working in the public sector and trying to make a change there and also coming out of the public sector and going into the private sector, and I guess what you're doing right now is very kind of direct help and direct messages to the public through the means of, you know, books and media. But before that you worked at Morgan Stanley as well. Oh, yes.

Daniel Koo:

And that was kind of the transition for you from the public to private sector.

Rawon:

No, I don't think so. Even though right now I'm working at a startup and I do have my own company and I work like a writer or something like that, I still do believe that I'm actually working in the public sector, because the ultimate goal and the aim I'm aiming for is for the public good. So, for example, even at Morgan Stanley that was actually part of the Columbia Morgan Stanley capstone project there my duty was to analyze the sanctions risk and now thinking about the key term sanction that is actually under the umbrella of foreign policy. So to me, I thought by helping Morgan Stanley do their job, I was thinking that I was actually working for the citizens too. At the same time, by preventing bad people from using dirty money and bad money, I was thinking that it was for the public and the citizens. So, even though the institution itself could be seen as a private institution, since the ultimate goal that I was aiming for was for the public, I would say it's a public job.

Daniel Koo:

Interesting, yeah, I think that's a very interesting perspective and an interesting take on, kind of like a public job Interesting. Yeah, I think that's a very interesting perspective, an interesting take on, kind of like a corporate job if you will right. Yeah, let's talk a little bit about working for the consulate general and as a legislative aide in New York, so you're kind of still in the public sector in this area, I guess.

Daniel Koo:

And it feels like you have more experience than ever at this point to really make a change, and did you have any big ideas on how to implement these changes?

Rawon:

The thing about working as a public officer is that sometimes, although you really want to make a great change right at the moment, sometimes it takes like five years or 10 years. My experience at the Korean Consulate General in New York City was possible thanks to the director that I worked with in the past. This is why networking and building good rapport and relationship is so important. So, for example, when I was working at the National Assembly's Speaker's Office, there was one director who only dealt matters relating to international affairs, and then, because he knew that I was already in New York, he called me and then asked me whether I would be interested in working as his own aide, especially in terms of legislation.

Rawon:

So, for example, actually Korean parliament loves benchmarking laws from different countries and states too benchmarking laws from different countries and states too and one of the things that we did very deeply at the time was looking at how people with disability could actually broaden their opportunities, and that actually included examples such as whether it's possible to bring their own. You know dogs, you know if you're blind, if you cannot see, then you got to have your own helper. But usually dogs do that, but sometimes in many countries, restaurants or stores, they don't allow dogs to enter. They don't allow dogs to enter. So we wanted to look at how the United States actually deals with this matter, and then we recognized that, oh, actually, they can enter anywhere they want.

Daniel Koo:

Service animals can enter anything.

Rawon:

Yeah. So we thought this is pretty good and this is an idea that we should promote. So we wrote some drafts and proposals about this and then we sent this package to the National Assembly headquarter and then I think a lot of assemblymen took a look at it and then one of the assemblymen actually loved our idea and then deeply engaged in this bill.

Daniel Koo:

I see that's one of the biggest changes that you've helped build and to be able to kind of pass that bill.

Rawon:

It is actually one of the most interesting because in my life I have never, ever touched upon topics like service animals or dogs. They could actually make a change in society. So that was actually the point where I thought that maybe not just human beings everything could make a change.

Daniel Koo:

That's why it was pretty, pretty interesting and so touching to me why it was pretty, pretty interesting and so touching to me, I guess, like it was a moment of kind of horizons kind of broadening, to be able to think about things in a more, even more open way, absolutely.

Daniel Koo:

And I think after this job it kind of takes you to the recent few years where you're, you have multiple jobs and you're kind of working on your own projects. Is there anything that you've learned throughout your career, If there's a kind of a big theme throughout, something that has really given you the wisdom or a really good idea to follow and that has kind of guided you throughout your career.

Rawon:

I think love is really important, and what I mean by the definition of love here is loving everything you do. So, for example, these days, I really, really love my team, especially the CEO I'm working together now. His name is Joon-hyung and I intentionally decided to work with him because I know he's a great guy and I know he's going to be a super global leader in the future, and genuinely he's so kind and he's so warm-hearted. I think lots of leaders have to be warm-hearted, but by really working with him, I learned a lot about team building and how it's really possible to make great changes by starting from zero, and I really love the fact that I have this kind of team at the moment.

Rawon:

But also, at the same time, what I want to try to say to the audience about love is that, for example, some people after graduating from good schools or if they're from you, know like really really fancy backgrounds. Then sometimes when seniors give you some, you know like nitty gritty task, or you know like nitty-gritty task or you know like annoying jobs, then some juniors don't like it and then they respond like this. I'm not here to do this, but my first reaction and my question to them is this. How can you take the plunge and how can you do great things without even knowing these small things? You got to love the smallest things. Then you can love the greatest things too.

Rawon:

So everything is so important. So I really just want to say this Everything should be loved and everything is so precious. So try not to make your own evaluation or judgment against the things that you dislike. Try to look at it from different views. There are some reasons why certain things are existing in the world, right. So I think love is the greatest lesson in the things that I try to harbor forever.

Daniel Koo:

I really, really like that. It also reminds me of what we talked about before about time management.

Rawon:

Yeah.

Daniel Koo:

And something that I've learned is you told me that you prioritize things based on who you're helping, who you're working with and who you love most at the time, and I think that kind of relates here into making sure that people you love the most are prioritized.

Rawon:

Yes.

Daniel Koo:

Right. I think that's a very good lesson for us to carry forwards, even when choosing your next career. Maybe you can keep that in mind. Typically, I ask the question to whom would you recommend this career? To most of our guests, but for you I think it's so tough because this career there's just so many things that you've done already. Yeah, and then maybe we can kind of go into some of the large categories, so maybe politics, or publishing, or participating in a startup.

Rawon:

So, maybe broadly those categories, if you have a recommendation on, like, what types of people should delve into these topics, oh, okay, that's a great question, but first of all I want to mention about this I don't know whether you're watching this program from Korea or the States or somewhere else. I'm a very, very analytical person, so when I think about the future career trajectory, I always try to look at the population size also, the trends going on in one society. So, for example, taking an example of Korea, you know we are already experiencing aged society not just aging, it's super aged. Then think about this what is going to be a huge trend in the future? It means that since there's going to be lots of, lots of old people, then there's going to be a higher possibility for you to work longer too. Now think about this that.

Rawon:

What questions should you ask to yourself? The first one is this Do I really like this? I mean, during your early 20s, mid 20s and up to just 20s, I think you should do jobs or works that you're super good at. If you're good at something, you have lots of confidence, and that confidence actually gives you another confidence to do something new. So, if you're good at something that will actually sustain your legacy for a certain amount of time, but going beyond just good at it, I think you should love something. I think you should love something. For example, I don't see these kinds of things as my work, I just love it. It's not burdensome at all, right? I mean, I think this applies to you too.

Daniel Koo:

Daniel, right, yeah, very similar. Being a podcast host is very easy to me. It's not something that I struggle to do. After I do it, I'm not tired, I'm very energized. So I understand what you're saying.

Rawon:

Exactly so. Finding what you really love is really important. But then people will come to me and ask another question how do you find what you love? Right, there's one answer Experience as many as possible. It's a principle of probability, right. The more you do it, the more you will taste it. That's a beauty of buffet. Live your life like a buffet until you find something you love. My mom always tells me not to eat sushi in the beginning when we go to buffet, because it's so filling right.

Daniel Koo:

I see the rice.

Rawon:

Yeah, the rice and all the carbs, right. So whenever I go to buffet I try to have you know like I pick everything with a small amount, Like I want to try this, I want to try this, and then, once you tried every dish that you picked, then you realize, oh, I love this dish. So today maybe I'm going to just dig this one in right. Same logic in life Try many things, and if you don't like it, then maybe you can move on.

Daniel Koo:

Maybe the reason sometimes we don't feel as passionate is because we don't know and we just need to be informed of where our hearts and minds kind of gravitate towards.

Rawon:

And I want to add this too the people around you is so important too, right? So, for example, in my case, this is actually one of the most popular questions I get from any interview I have, when they look at my resume it's so long. Then they ask me this did you all apply? And my response is just the same For the first one I applied by myself, but from the rest, I got offers.

Rawon:

It's usually the seniors or the directors that I worked with, and when they moved to different places, they asked me whether I would be interested in moving too. So in my case, I was really lucky and fortunate to have that opportunity, but it could not be the case for everyone, but still, if that happens, you might be missing badly those people, right? Oh, I miss them so much because they were the only ones who really really cared about you, right? I actually had that experience one time my senior moved to a different place and I was kind of depressed because really he was the one to give me good advice and, you know, like, guided almost everything, and he was super, just genuinely kind. So I thought maybe it's a time that I should become that kind of person, not just having a role model. How about I just become that role model? Yeah, then all of a sudden, people are attracted to you and they, you know, like talk to you.

Daniel Koo:

That's so true. I think that's something that we can take with us as we're moving forward into our career. Some things that I'm learning today. Number one that I'm getting from you is you have to broaden your horizon, and I love how you talk about things in such a global scale. You talk about Korea as a peninsula. For me, it's just home, you know, it's really simple for me, but I think there is a lot of benefit to thinking about this world as something that you can impact and help.

Daniel Koo:

I'm really getting that from you. One other thing is that being really genuine in terms of network, in terms of your career, in terms of what you're interested in you know. Don't fake it. You know there's plenty of things that you will be interested in and passionate about. And the last thing is love. I think that thing is a very important concept for us to grasp, and just the way you talk about things in a human-based approach, it really does make a difference in how you carry out your actions going forward. I think that's something that I'm learning and will carry forwards in the future.

Rawon:

Absolutely. That's why I described the word cosmopolitan here. That includes words like love, respect and also global. That's why I think in the future, for those who are really interested in participating for your perfect path, I think they will have better ideas about what they really want to do.

Daniel Koo:

As one of the very last questions what is in store for your future? So what is your next step and what can we be most excited for to see in your future? And what can we be most excited for to see?

Rawon:

in your future. One thing interesting about my life is that I get many calls and offers these days. I try not to get those calls because I love what I do right now. Especially, what I want to do at the moment is to really really scale up the startup that I'm doing with Junhyung the CEO. We want to make a school in the States. So right now we're working a lot with Taiwan Foundation. Actually, the head of the Taiwan Foundation is my friend. Actually the head of the Taiwan Foundation is my friend and it's got so good educational vision and we were thinking that how about we make this global? And also, at the same time, I want to make a school that really produces lots of global leaders. These days, I think people are becoming more egoistic and selfish. They only think about them, but I think leaders, if there's one good leader in one world, then the whole world changes, yeah. So I'm really into producing lots of leaders.

Rawon:

And the second thing is I write books. I mean, I really do think that my side identity, is a writer. So these days I'm writing books on international affairs. Again, sorry, that's what I love, but I really want to present how Korea can actually create grand strategies. So that's the second thing I'm working on, and the third is in the long future, I want to go back to the field of politics and international politics too, because, like you said, I noticed that you actually keep mentioning about the word impact. Like you said, I noticed that you actually keep mentioning about the word impact. At the end of the day, it's actually politics and international politics that really really make great changes and impact at a global scale. So, if the opportunity is given, I want to go back and maybe, hopefully, with better wisdom I have, I give better and hopeful messages to the audience at the global level. So that's what I'm aiming for.

Daniel Koo:

We're all very excited to see what kind of change you're going to bring up. I think, with the experience, the wisdom and the attitude that you bring, I have no doubt that you'll make amazing changes in the world.

Rawon:

Oh, my God, that is such a great compliment. But I also actually want to make a good compliment about Daniel, our host. I told you yesterday about the Bible in the chapter Daniel, daniel, page 12 in verse 3. Daniels are the ones who actually bring people to the righteousness, and because they do that, they shine like a star forever. So one of the reasons why I really wanted to take part in this conversation is because of you. I really thought you could make great changes and great impact to the people, and not just a career. Maybe in the future, hopefully, you become a great podcast host and talk about many things going beyond the topics of career, but maybe life in general too. So I'm really looking forward to your future too.

Daniel Koo:

Thank you so much. Those are very kind words. You're always an inspiration to talk to, oh thank you, so we'll make sure to have you back on the podcast at some point.

Rawon:

Oh yeah, I gotta be popular.

Daniel Koo:

I think you're going to do so many things. I know you're going to be back. Thank you so much for spending your time with me today. I really appreciate everything that we learned.

Rawon:

Oh, it's my pleasure and thank you so much for having me again. Thank you, thanks for watching.