My Perfect Path

One of a kind career: Disney, Deloitte, Universal, Stanford with Deborah Min

• Daniel Koo • Season 2 • Episode 4

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What happens when life takes unexpected turns? Deborah Kwon’s remarkable career journey proves that sometimes the most fulfilling paths are the least linear ones. 

Deborah takes us through her professional evolution from structural engineering studies at MIT to leadership roles at Deloitte, Disney Imagineering, Universal Studios, and A&E Networks. Her candid reflections reveal how each transition taught her valuable lessons about adaptability, communication, and the power of relationships in career development.

The conversation explores fascinating behind-the-scenes insights from her work developing major theme park attractions (including Tower of Terror!) and master-planning Universal Studios Singapore from bare ground. Deborah shares how at just 26, she found herself with extraordinary responsibility that shaped her professional confidence and approach to leadership.

Beyond career achievements, we delve into the personal side of professional choices. Deborah offers refreshingly honest perspectives on balancing ambitious career goals with family life, including strategic decisions to maintain flexibility while raising children. Her approach challenges conventional work narratives, showing how careful prioritization can allow for both professional fulfillment and family engagement.

For those feeling uncertain about their next career move, Deborah's story offers reassurance through its winding nature. She emphasizes the value of mentorship, highlights how networking (or "making friends" as she prefers to call it) opened unexpected doors, and explains why being able to anticipate questions makes you invaluable in any professional setting.

Whether you're contemplating a career pivot, struggling to balance competing priorities, or simply curious about different professional paths, this episode provides both practical wisdom and encouraging perspective from someone who's navigated it all with remarkable grace.

Subscribe now to hear more stories from professionals who've found their unique path through today's complex career landscape!

Feel free to leave comments here!

Deborah Kwon:

I got to do so much more than I ever imagined at that age. I think I was only about like 26 or 27, maybe like your age.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, just about my age yeah so much more than I ever imagined, and it was all international. So then we got to travel a lot. One project was like a ground-up project and it was in Singapore. Sentosa Island was the space, but really there was nothing there but dirt. So it was from the ground up master planning a whole new theme park and then just figuring out what to do and how to present it to the senior management to get approval and working with the government.

Daniel Koo:

So you and your team were kind of really responsible for the whole, like starting up the whole project.

Deborah Kwon:

It was like carte blanche, like you could figure this out. So that was really exciting and we had a good budget. I was able to interview consultants to hire them and just the support I had from my boss you know just he trusted me to do gave me so much latitude, more than somebody my age would have.

Daniel Koo:

Hey, welcome back to My Perfect Path. For those of you who are new, I'm your host, Daniel Koo, and I welcome you to season two. For me, at large, pivotal moments of my life, such as applying to new colleges, applying to new jobs or determining what next career move is right for me I spend time researching and finding mentorship to determine next career move is right for me. I spend time researching and finding mentorship to determine what was the best path for me. I knew that this struggle was not isolated to me. Everyone struggles with this, simply because we cannot predict the future. However, I found something that is second best to predicting the future it's learning from those ahead of our career and from those who've seen more and experienced more. After all, there are not that many problems that have not been solved yet. If you've ever felt unsure about your next career move, you're in the right place Today.

Daniel Koo:

I'm excited to introduce to you Deborah Kwon, who has built an impressive career spanning consulting, entertainment, media technology and commercialization. Her professional journey includes roles at Deloitte, disney Imagineering, universal Studios, a&e Networks and currently at Stanford University's Office of Technology Licensing. Beyond her corporate achievements, deborah is a dedicated mother of two and actively contributes to the nonprofit sector. Her story illustrates how embracing unexpected opportunities and following your interests can lead to a fulfilling yet nonlinear career path. In this episode, we'll discuss the transitions between engineering and business, navigating work-life balance, the power of networking and practical advice for those looking to pivot in their careers. I think you're going to enjoy this one, so thank you so much for joining us.

Deborah Kwon:

My pleasure.

Daniel Koo:

I think today we'll be kind of going over a lot of practical advice. I think that's what you're about as well. But before we go in, today's episode's name is My Winding Path. Could you tell us a little bit about why you chose that?

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, absolutely. I guess you know people think that they have a career laid out for them, whether they want to be a doctor or lawyer or engineer. I thought I had a career planned out for me too, but it was not as I expected. It took a lot of turns and I moved bi-coastal twice from LA to New York and back and just and I'm still evolving, I'm still looking for, like, the next thing. So there it never really ends, I think.

Daniel Koo:

Actually that's the other word that we were almost going to use for the episode right, bi-coastal. I think you know how you made that decision to go from New York to California. Those will all be kind of practical advice that we'll be able to learn today. Can we talk a little bit about your current role, or current roles, and what your day-to-day looks like?

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, absolutely. So. I work part-time for a Stanford office of technology licensing. So what I do is I market patents that come out of the labs at Stanford. So it entails having a business background so you can understand the aspects of the technology and then writing abstracts to pull out the details of the technology and the patents and market them to companies that would want to license them. So it really is commercialization and the mission statement there is to better society through translating research from lab to society. And every university, every research university out there, has this function. So, like you went to USC, they have a big commercialization office too and they have roles, like I have.

Deborah Kwon:

But what was unique for me was my college roommate worked in this marketing role at Stanford. She moved away and then she was able to do it remotely and then the workload got so big because Stanford just grew so much over the past 30 years that she needed help. And I was talking to her one day and I said your job seems so interesting and she said, oh, an opening's here and that's how I got the job. So I think a key component about careers is really just who you know and not always what you know, so it's just timing. You know, she was somebody who was talking to me about her career and I was looking to switch careers because I wanted to have a flexible part-time job.

Deborah Kwon:

So that's my part-time job, remotely. And then my other part-time job is working for a nonprofit. I'm a board member and doing strategic consulting for this nonprofit that supports special needs kids. So I'm rolling off of what I'm doing at Stanford and spending more time on nonprofit. I'm thinking to do more nonprofit for Asian American voices. So I'm looking to the next step, which is different than what I've done in the past.

Daniel Koo:

I think you touched on a really good point of knowing the right people in your career and, as we'll talk about later in the episode, your move to Disney and your move to Universal was very much a process that was really aided by the network that you've built over the years. So I think I'm really excited to hear more about that. Let's jump back to maybe your childhood times and I want to know what kind of background you've had and how you grew up.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, absolutely. So. I was born in Seoul and we immigrated to America via Hawaii and then New York City when I was two. So I don't remember much about Korea at all, but I watch a lot of Korean drama to try to see what my childhood could have been like if I had been in Korea. So that's one of the reasons I watch a lot of the K-dramas. I'm so curious about how you grew up in Korea. But anyway, I came as an immigrant. So, like immigrants, it was all about education and studying. You need to get good grades and go to a good school so you can get a good job. So that was always the goal. And I was the oldest child.

Deborah Kwon:

I was very independent and I tried to do a lot of different things growing up. I liked to write, I liked photography, I liked to draw. I did a lot of different things. I loved like Legos and building things and drawing things, and I think I wanted to make things, like create things. So I always loved like fashion, design and architecture. I remember, as an immigrant, seeing like the you know, world Trade Center, empire State Building and just these iconic structures. So I wanted to build things. So I studied architecture and structural engineering at MIT, but earlier on I think my influences was just being curious about the world and I really liked functional art. I think I realized that later on Things that were beautiful but was useful, like even chairs or clothes. I like the aesthetics of things.

Daniel Koo:

I actually resonate a lot with what you just said, Because when I was growing up I always remember trying to build things. I mean, they weren't amazing inventions at the time, but I think I was trying to, even for Legos. I liked Legos that move and that had moving parts, rather than stationary ones. I always thought if it's stationary you can just follow the instructions and make it. I didn't really see a big point in them because I wasn't into collecting, but I always wanted things to move and do something. So I actually resonate with that a lot. I guess a lot of engineers may have a similar kind of growing up.

Deborah Kwon:

I think a lot of people feel that way. Yeah, like when you write code, you're building something from nothing. And that's a really exciting feeling You've created something, you've added something to the world. So I think I always liked that idea.

Daniel Koo:

So you studied architecture and structural engineering?

Deborah Kwon:

Yes, how was that for you? Is it a double major at MIT was under the civil engineering and environmental science department and I think because, like your peers, you wanted to get an engineering degree. So I just did architecture on the side while I got the degree in engineering.

Daniel Koo:

Oh, wow, actually, I did something kind of similar. I studied cinematic arts as a minor and I think you know as engineers, if you take too many classes on the engineering side, you kind of want a creative side as well. So I feel like that's something that I was looking forward to. I don't know if you were doing the same.

Deborah Kwon:

I think I did, because I think in one of my essays for grad school I said I was a Libra and I'm all about balance and the left side, right side. I always had a creative side and I actually studied at like Parsons and FIT.

Daniel Koo:

Oh, you did.

Deborah Kwon:

Art schools in New York City when I was in high school. But I liked the math side, where it was precise and there was one answer and then you were done. I remember in my architecture classes we would be building, designing and actually building models, but it was never done. It was like 24 hours a day we could be building, but it was never done. But I liked in my engineering classes you would finish your problem set and you're done. So I like both sides of that. So yeah, I think I understand what you're saying, with just the balance of it.

Daniel Koo:

How was growing up in New York?

Deborah Kwon:

So I lived in some not so great places in the Bronx and Queens and then my parents, we moved to New Jersey when I was 10. So I was a latchkey kid, I was scared all the time. And then you should be back in the 70s. You should have been scared all the time. And then you should be Back in the 70s. You should have been scared all the time. It's much better now, but in New Jersey it was like a very suburban life, but I always was drawn to Manhattan. So in the summers I tried to take summer classes in New York, but it was like a typical suburban life. But my parents were working hard, hard and I was very independent. So I just did things on my own. I signed up for my own classes and, you know, just found my way through high school.

Daniel Koo:

I guess during high school what was kind of like your favorite subject, if anything.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, so in high school I you know, I actually found all my college essays and my Common App back from 1988. Oh wow, I mean we had Common Apps back then but we had to type them. But my classes, I mean, I did very well in school and it really was the teachers I had, such excellent like STEM teachers that I think it drew me to that. But I saw that in my activities. I had a t-shirt printing business so I would design t-shirts and then I also won some home economics award in like the state of New Jersey for this jacket. So I did all sorts of weird things with like creating things.

Daniel Koo:

That's very entrepreneurial as a high school student.

Deborah Kwon:

And I'm like I don't know. My claim to fame actually is we had a new computer sewing machine in my home economics class.

Daniel Koo:

What is a computer sewing machine?

Deborah Kwon:

So it allowed you to press buttons to make letters Like you could do embroidery, and you didn't have to do it manually.

Daniel Koo:

Like to do the E's and do lettering manually.

Deborah Kwon:

You can program it to make embroidery and letters like flowers or so-and-so, like love, so-and-so, you could put initials and you could do all sorts of things with it. And my teacher didn't know what to do with it. So I figured out how to use it and that's why I made all sorts of crazy things and then I won some prizes on it.

Daniel Koo:

I guess was that kind of like your first exposure to coding and things like that.

Deborah Kwon:

It wasn't coding really, but it was just figuring out, like the Like, how to make it work, asking me to like decorate the boards outside the room, to like you know the old I don't know if you guys still have that, but outside the classroom there would be a board where you would put up, you know, what the class was studying that that semester or whatever. So, you know, every few months I would make designs and, you know, replace the board with all the different designs.

Deborah Kwon:

So, yeah, that's now. I remember that was my claim to fame in that high school.

Daniel Koo:

So after that you kind of ended up in MIT. How was your experience there? And I guess is there something that you learned at MIT that kind of you still carry to this day.

Deborah Kwon:

So I think when you're there it's hard. It's like there's a saying that you're drinking from a fire hose, that when you're there and there's no safety nets, like you could fail. But now I really appreciate, just like the grit that you learn from the people. I think everyone there was really hardworking and really cooperative. It wasn't like I don't know. I think the people there were really amazing people and socially we had a great time.

Deborah Kwon:

I was lucky to be part of a sorority. There was only two sororities and 30 fraternities at that time. Now there's like seven or eight sororities and 30 fraternities. At that time Now there's like seven or eight sororities, but I think when I was there maybe it was like 25, 30% women, so it's not as small as people think. Now it's like there's parity 50-50.

Deborah Kwon:

But I think I worked extra hard because I didn't want people to think they're like, oh, you're only there because you're a girl. So I felt like I had to work extra hard and make sure I could compete with everyone. But honestly, I enjoyed working with the guys. It was just easy and there was no like emotionality with studying or saying your opinions. A lot of people say I have very masculine energy, not as emotional, like I don't like talking on the phone about feelings for hours and hours. So you know we just got to the problem set, got things done and yeah, even at work too, I enjoyed working with guys. Often I was the only woman in the room, so I think it prepared me to work with guys because you know it was a man's world out there for sure.

Daniel Koo:

When you were at MIT, did you feel imposter syndrome at all Like? Did you ever feel like it was too much for you, or did you feel like, as you were going through it, you were getting used to it?

Deborah Kwon:

I think there's always that fear that you might fail. So it drove me to work and study hard. I think everyone had somewhat of an imposter syndrome. But I got good grades. I got into good grad schools, I was in two honor societies. So when I got those achievements I felt better, like oh, maybe I do belong here. But I think, yes, when you're first there you're like I'm going to fail, I'm going to fail. But yeah, even the first year is pass-fail because people do fail. So they made it pass-fail so to ease the transition. But I think after, like, my grades settled, I got a rhythm. I think I felt much better about it. But often, you know, whenever you're in new roles, new places, you always have an imposter syndrome.

Daniel Koo:

I think you know, just talking to you I get a feeling that you probably won't have failure as an option, Like I feel like you would just kind of like really power through it and be prepared to to make sure that you get a. You get, you get good grades yeah, I don't.

Deborah Kwon:

I didn't think there was ever a choice like you just had to, you just had to, but I mean, I think there is a mental health toll to it too. I think I still have nightmares that I'm gonna fail a test, honestly like I've had those before, really, yeah, I know a lot of people have that it's like your, your final exams coming up and you never went to class and you never dropped the class. And now you have to go to the class. I have that dream.

Daniel Koo:

I think for me, it's more about forgetting that there was an exam and then realizing that, oh my gosh, I didn't prepare for this. Not being prepared is probably my deepest fear maybe no.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, I think that's part of the imposter syndrome. It's like I don't belong here, I'm not ready for this, and I think anytime you're in a new, challenging situation, that dream is kind of telling you that.

Daniel Koo:

So after MIT you got accepted to Stanford and Berkeley master's programs.

Deborah Kwon:

Right when I was an undergraduate, because I just wanted that momentum, because I think when you're in the workforce it's hard to you know, take all your exams and get back to school. So and my dream was to go to California. I just, I had roommates from California, I met a lot of friends from California. So I said, oh, I, that's what I'm going to do, I'm going to go to California. So I said, oh, that's what I'm going to do, I'm going to go to California. So I applied to those two schools.

Daniel Koo:

When you decided to do a master's program, did you not want to go into industry just yet? I wanted to know if that was a deliberate thing or if it was something you did to kind of delay the inevitable going into the job market.

Deborah Kwon:

No, I think in what I was doing, you needed a master's. To be a structural engineer, you needed a master's. You also needed a PE degree, which is also a professional engineering exam. You have to pass this eight-hour exam. So I did that too, as a senior, because I thought I was going to be a structural engineer working in New York.

Daniel Koo:

Is that more like a license?

Deborah Kwon:

It's a professional engineering license so you can sign off on drawings and plans that the structure is going to stand. So, yeah, it's a professional license. Yes, so I was planning that. But then all my friends who are all engineers were all doing business Interesting and it's because, you know, money was calling, Like these investment banks and consulting groups just came to our school and you just signed up for interviews and they whine and dine you and they say, oh, look at this, you know opportunity. And then you get kind of swayed by that. So I always look back thinking there's so many incredible students that were studying and researching in such great, you know important areas but they got wooed away by money and Wall Street. So I don't know. So yeah, money is a real driver.

Daniel Koo:

So did you end up doing your master's program, or what was the route that you took?

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, so again it's windy because you know we're lying to the summer. Before my senior year I was working at an engineering company in New York city and someone pulled me aside and I was just doing CAD drawings and you know analysis doing, you know these calculations. And this guy said you know what? You should go into business, don't do this, you're not going to. You know I'm I was one of very few women engineers there. It's like you're not going to make a lot of money and you're not going to rise fast. And he thought that I would do better in business in general. So I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then I went back to college and then my friends were all signing up for these you know Wall Street jobs and I was like what do you do there? I think I was too late to work in investment banking, because the people who were going to do banking, they really understood what that job was and I didn't understand what that job was, and you probably recruit a lot earlier, right?

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, I think some of them were already doing the summer internships the summer before. But then there were others who just jumped the bandwagon and figured it out and got jobs on Wall Street. But I got a job in consulting which I never imagined. I didn't even know what that was when my senior year started. But I had another friend slash mentor was like a year older who also said you know, this is what investment banking is like and this is what consulting is like, and I think you'd be better for consulting and I was like that's interesting.

Deborah Kwon:

So I just signed up for some interviews and then and I got the job. So I was surprised.

Daniel Koo:

So the person who pulled you aside and said you know, don't go into engineering, did that person know you well or was it just like an advice from a random person?

Deborah Kwon:

So the person at the firm at the engineering firm did not know me well. He was just another co-worker that I was just doing CAD drawings with, and then my mentor, who was a year older, he's the one who actually he knew me very well. He's the one saying you know, don't do architecture, do structural engineering. And he's the one else said don't do engineering, do business, because he's going to do investment banking, and he ended up going to business school also.

Daniel Koo:

You end up going to Deloitte for management consulting. How was that experience for you?

Deborah Kwon:

So in 1992, it was a pretty bad recession so that program in Manhattan used to have 10 to 15 analysts and I think we only had four in my group and we just didn't have the projects projects I think that we used to have when it wasn't a recession, and I think we talked about this, how it's great to have two out of the three aspects of a, of a project like you got to make sure you have a good project, good teammates and a good boss yes, ah yes, the three things that make you kind of happy at work.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, the three things that give you, you know, like quality of life at work right. So it was because, in consulting, each project is, you know, finite and each team is like a virtual team that come together and break up, come together and break up and you could have different projects, different managers, different teams, like some part of that was good because you had to be really flexible, you had to learn how to work in a team very quickly and adapt. But sometimes you might not have a great team or a great manager or a great project and some you know. So sometimes I would have two of the three, sometimes I would have zero of the three. So it really depended on the project.

Deborah Kwon:

But overall, I mean, the skills that I learned was, I think the main skill I learned was networking. They said in order to get on the projects you want to be on, you have to network with the partners who are doing that industry. So I was interested in real estate and there was certain partners that worked on that. So you had to go approach them at these events and say I'm really interested in what you're doing and they might put you on a project. So I learned that is important. And then, just technically, we had a program where they would fly out all the analysts I think there were like 300 in the country. We'd fly to Chicago or Florida or someplace and we'd all get to know each other and then learn technical skills like how to put together a presentation, like the decks, how to write a deck, or financial analysis or marketing strategies, things like that.

Daniel Koo:

Actually, before we go more deep into Deloitte, I want to ask you you mentioned that you learned a lot about networking, or maybe the importance of it. Is there like a skill or some practical advice around networking? So I'm sure it must've been daunting to go and talk to these partners at the time, because you're in your early twenties and you're just trying to figure out how to make conversation with them. Do you have any advice around that?

Deborah Kwon:

I know it could sound so transactional, right, like you just, you know, say you know I want X, but that's not the case. I mean it's both ways, I think I mean I could help them on their project. You know I have skills that could help them on their project. So I thought of it that way. So it's not just one way it could be. I can help you too, and if they don't pick me for a project in the future, that's fine, you know. And then from that person you can meet another person.

Deborah Kwon:

But I think I was, even more than I was, very extroverted younger. Now I'm more introverted, I think, but when I was younger I was very extroverted. So that helped. I think if you're introverted that could feel like a daunting thing to do is just to go up to strange people. But I always had like three questions in my pocket and when we were doing small talk, um, and in new york city it was all about uh, restaurants oh, at that time there was this guide where everybody would try to check off every restaurant that you would go to and um.

Deborah Kwon:

So one of the questions would be like oh, have you been to any good restaurants lately? Another question is like oh, have you been to any good vacations or something, and like tell me, what project are you working on? So just you know, if you don't have a flow with a conversation, at least I could be like oh, have you been to a restaurant lately? Or I just went to, you know, le Côte Basque or whatever. That restaurant was in New York City at the time.

Daniel Koo:

That's actually really good advice, I think, just because everyone loves food. You know everyone loves going to restaurants and eating good food. Everyone loves to learn about you know great restaurants, so I think that's really good practical advice. So now you're at Deloitte and you're kind of experiencing different projects and you're learning different things. When did you start to feel a little bit antsy and maybe look for a change?

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, so typically after the business analyst program it's about two to three years. People go to business school afterwards. But because I had applied to Stanford and Berkeley from undergrad, I knew that I was going to go there because I was dating somebody on the West Coast. So I told my boyfriend at the time, like I'm going to be at Stanford in 1994. And if somehow you can be there, maybe we can have a future together. So the reason I went to Stanford over Berkeley was because Stanford let me defer two years so I could do this program, whereas Berkeley said no. So that's why and Stanford was great when I got there they let me modify my major, so it wasn't so engineering that it could be more about real estate development and more business focused.

Daniel Koo:

That actually turned out really great for you, I guess, because you got to try out working at Deloitte and being in industry and then ending up kind of changing to major as well. I actually want to ask a question about the transition from engineering to maybe business consulting and that kind of arena. When you made that switch, what was kind of going through your head? I'm guessing you've been exposed to a lot of engineering at school and you're kind of diving into this new career field Was that difficult to kind of reconcile in your head?

Deborah Kwon:

No, I just thought, gosh, this is so easy. The math that you needed was, like you only needed like algebra too.

Deborah Kwon:

Or maybe just algebra. You don't need differential equations, so it just felt easy. But all different skills, like it was not your, you know your technical skills, it was all your. You know communication skills. I mean, I always say that's your number one thing. You have to communicate what's in your head or nobody will know what you know. So it was a whole different skill set. That you know becomes more important.

Deborah Kwon:

But what I realized, though and this is sad because it's like back in that time, it was such a man's world. It was very sexist, it was very racist, and I realized in college you were judged by your grades, and that was objective, and in the work world you were judged very subjectively. So I cut my hair, I wore glasses, we weren't able to wear pants at the time too, and I remember just feeling really out of place. I was always like the youngest on the team, many times the only Asian, almost all the time the only Asian, almost all the time, the only Asian, and often the only woman too. So it was interesting when Sheryl Sandberg said to lean in and sit at the table, I was the one always sitting, not at the table but on the outskirts at all those meetings.

Daniel Koo:

And.

Deborah Kwon:

I'm like yeah, I didn't see myself as being at the table. I always sat outside the table.

Daniel Koo:

I think that actually must have been really tough and something that thankfully nowadays people don't experience as much. But are there any lessons that you kind of take away from that?

Deborah Kwon:

Oh gosh, like I had no like mentor for that. I wish I had somebody I could look up to to tell me, like you know, it's okay, you know, just being a woman or being 20. I might probably look like 15 at the time too. Like that's, you know, just being a woman or being 20, I might probably look like 15 at the time too. Like that's, you know, you could. Still, I wish I had more confidence, yeah. But yeah, I do feel sorry for that young person back then, but I'm really proud that this generation, they, don't have to feel that way.

Daniel Koo:

And if someone were to kind of go through something similar, maybe to a lesser degree, what would you say to them?

Deborah Kwon:

Oh gosh, that's hard. Just focus on your work. You know it's just because you might be younger or female or Asian doesn't mean your work is not as good as the other, the next person.

Daniel Koo:

So, moving on from Deloitte, so now you've started your master's program at Stanford, tell me about your relationship and how that kind of panned out.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah. So I met Ken when I was working at that engineering firm the summer before my senior year, and he was a third year med student and he was in New York I'm in, I'm going to be in Boston. So we did a long distance there and he was in New York, I'm going to be in Boston. So we did a long distance there. And then I did come back to New York to work for Deloitte and then he went to LA for residency. So we were doing bi-coastal relationship and I said you know, it's confirmed that I'm going to be at Stanford in 1994. So if we're going to have a future, you need to be there.

Daniel Koo:

Yeah, move to NorCal.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, so it was really hard to do. But he was able to switch residency spots with somebody he knew that was at Stanford, who wanted to come to UCLA, and they just did an even swap. And it's not easy to do that for residencies, but it's almost impossible.

Deborah Kwon:

But it just happened that you know he had interviewed at Stanford, so they wanted him. And then vice versa, the woman who wanted to come down to UCLA they knew her, so they accepted her. And again it was through his medical school friend who was at Stanford that said that Ken contacted him and said you know, I want to get to Stanford, like what's the situation up there? And he said you know, I know somebody who wants to go to LA, and that's how it happened. And yeah, you.

Daniel Koo:

It's almost like destiny it really is.

Deborah Kwon:

But yeah, so that happened and we got engaged at that Hoover Tower and then we lived there. Yeah, that was 30 plus years ago, wow, yeah.

Daniel Koo:

Okay so you meet the love of your life and you're kind of staying in Stanford and the Bay Area. Yeah so during your master's program, was the program what you expected?

Deborah Kwon:

It was a very short program but I really enjoyed the people, the professors, and I really liked that. I was able to create the program that I wanted and I always say, compared to MIT, that Stanford's a walk in the park.

Deborah Kwon:

I always say, just like, location-wise, it's just gorgeous, the campus is just gorgeous, people seem really happy to be there and like a full circle moment is the professors that I would study with and do research with, you know, working at Stanford. Now I see the patents that they're putting forth and they're still working on a lot of the same area A lot of innovative materials for construction and just building safety, earthquake sensors, things like that that I would work on. I would see those kind of patents come through. So I'm like, wow, they're working. And they were like junior faculty then and now they're like the head of the department, so it's really exciting to like see that full circle. But yeah, I'm really grateful for Stanford, since, you know, got married there and so it's a special place for us. But yeah, I always say it was just such a beautiful environment and just a fun time.

Daniel Koo:

So at this point I think you've made a successful pivot in your career.

Deborah Kwon:

You've gotten a new degree in the field that you want to kind of delve into. What's one? At a young age, the best way to pivot is to get a degree. If you wanted to go from engineering to business, go get an MBA. Or if you want to do you know, computer science, get a master's in computer science. Or, you know, somehow network and find the right opportunities there. So yeah, just I guess. Yeah, back to networking and listening and asking.

Daniel Koo:

Do you think that's still true in the kind of modern era as well? I guess I'm sure you see a lot of people and a lot of examples of that. Do you feel like that still holds true where, like, you can use a degree to kind of pivot into a new field?

Deborah Kwon:

You probably don't need it as much, because I think one thing I'm lacking in my resume is an MBA. Right, because you know I had the opportunity to get MBAs but because I was married it limited me to do things, so I didn't get the MBA, but it didn't stop me. Most of my jobs required an MBA, so it was my experience that allowed me to get that. But maybe this day and age, because there are so many more applicants for the same job because of LinkedIn and just mass hiring, I think maybe the very specific degrees can help you to really distinguish yourself. But I can't even stress enough just the networking, like the coffee chats within your company. You know you should be doing 15-minute coffee chats with different adjacent departments you might be working with and sign up for committees and, you know, just be visible. But I think that's personality too.

Deborah Kwon:

I mean it's easy for the extroverts to do that to go to every function and event and sign up for all these special events committees.

Daniel Koo:

Yeah, I feel that too when I go to networking events. Not everyone is going to be offering you a job, but it's maybe one out of 20, 50 that ends up being very useful and that ends up really helping you, and they end up being really good friends too.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, absolutely. It's not just job searching, it's building relationships.

Daniel Koo:

I think, even with finding guests for the podcast, I'm looking at so many people talking to so many people and then once in I'll I'll come across someone with really interesting stories, um, and then I'll try to get them on my podcast and I think that actually is helping me a lot because I'm meeting so many diverse people, some of which you know have access to or have been starting startups and things like that which I'm interested in doing later. So I think, yeah, networking definitely is a very big part. That I think is important as well.

Deborah Kwon:

I know it could be a bad word. I think like some people shiver at that like oh.

Daniel Koo:

Yeah, it has a bad rep.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, but it doesn't have to be.

Daniel Koo:

If we can rename it, we can call it making friends. Yeah, that's better. New friends, new friends, new friends, okay, so after your master's program you go into disney.

Deborah Kwon:

Yes, I got it through stanford. They were on campus, so, um, because back then they didn't have the internet to find jobs so these were actual networking fairs yeah, they would come and they have the kiosks or the stands. Yeah, like career fairs. The way I got my engineering job way back then was going through a book and writing to each of them.

Daniel Koo:

Wow.

Deborah Kwon:

So there was no portal to send anything in, but it was better because there's less applicants for the job.

Daniel Koo:

The barrier of entry is a lot higher, I guess yeah.

Deborah Kwon:

Like, deloitte came to my school and Disney came to my school, so that's how I got those jobs.

Daniel Koo:

So you were kind of, you were in line and in front of the stand and you went to pitch, I guess.

Deborah Kwon:

I don't know if they had a kiosk. I think they did have a representative, but it was just like an office.

Daniel Koo:

They had an office and then sent their resume did an interview and then they flew me down to Burbank. So this is in LA now, so it's not even in Stanford area.

Deborah Kwon:

Okay, so right now.

Daniel Koo:

so your husband is still in Stanford and now you've got a job at in Burbank, which is in Southern California we live separately for the second year.

Deborah Kwon:

We live separately for our second year of marriage. I had an apartment in Burbank, which is in Southern California. We live separately for the second year. We live separately for our second year of marriage. I had an apartment in Burbank and we had an apartment in Sunnyvale, so I would just fly up, you know, san Jose to Burbank every weekend.

Daniel Koo:

Every weekend Wow.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, but you know that was an hour flight and those were small airports and it was easy to get in and out and I had colleagues driving, you know, to Orange County from Burbank and I would get home before they got home driving through the traffic.

Daniel Koo:

That's hilarious. No, that makes sense, because today I drove from LA to somewhere in OC.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, the traffic is bad. It is bad. We had to separate a lot for work, but that was really like a dream job for me.

Daniel Koo:

I really enjoyed working for Disney. So what were you doing at Disney? Just to kind of introduce us into the world of Disney.

Deborah Kwon:

Imagineering. What was your role there? Yeah, so I worked as a senior development analyst. So that was looking at the financial impacts of developing resorts and theme parks and rides. So looking at, say, we're building like a hundred million dollar ride and just how, what the financial impact of that would be. So we would do all this analysis of how it'll increase. There's all sorts of terminologies like per caps and attendance, like how this new ride will help drive marketing, it'll drive attendance, it'll drive dollars and cents, the food and beverage revenue, and then we would have to justify the spending for this and then present it to senior management.

Daniel Koo:

So you take into consideration like the attractiveness of the ride and maybe the route as well, and how people will pass by certain yeah, that's the whole industrial engineering part of it.

Deborah Kwon:

So that is actually separate. But there's a huge group that looks at like theoretical capacity and throughput actual capacity and you know. Then you can look at the entire theme park itself to see how many people can they actually put through rides in an hour. There's a lot of analysis around.

Daniel Koo:

That sounds really fun yeah.

Deborah Kwon:

That's a huge group and they're a really tight knit group. They're really fun to work with. Yeah, they're, they're really fun. There's a lot of internships there too. So yeah there's a lot of internships there, but it was more on the financial side. But I got to work a lot with engineers who are designing these structures, like the rides or the water parks or the resorts, like the hotels, all the golf courses. So in order to do my analysis, I would have to work with engineers to figure out what all the assumptions and inputs were.

Daniel Koo:

So it seems like there is a bit of connection. From your past studies I know you were interested in architecture, so now you're kind of building something.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, it was my dream job, honestly, because not only I was the client like when you're a consultant, you're always working for the client, right? So it's always nice to be on the client side, Like you're the ones hiring the consultants. So I was the one hiring consultants and they were providing, you know, information that I would need to analyze the projects.

Daniel Koo:

So now actually the people you work with are both jobs that you've had before, right, so you were an engineer, you were a consultant, so I assume that would have helped you a lot in communicating with them.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, I appreciated their perspective for sure. You know, I wanted to make sure I gave them very clear updates on the projects, like clear goals. If anything changed, you had to communicate very clearly so we don't waste their time and then they charge us too much because we didn't tell them that something pivoted right. So it's again back to communications with your clients, and at this point I was a lot more. I was more seasoned, so I had more confidence in working with consultants.

Daniel Koo:

This is just for, I guess for me but what kind of rights did you work on, and did you ever have to go to Japan to work on some of the no, I didn't work on Tokyo Disneyland.

Deborah Kwon:

I worked on Tower of Terror.

Deborah Kwon:

Oh, wow, yeah that was really fun. I worked on some Florida projects. Some of the hotels in Florida Gosh, what are they called? Like, maybe the All Stars Hotel, some of the hotels I worked on. I also worked at Downtown Disney oh, yes, it's changed so much downtown Disney, but I remember going to a lot of malls looking at different like layouts and looking, understanding the rents per square foot, because we had to analyze, like what would it cost to build this downtown Disney and what would the annual operating budgets would look like and how much rent we would get from them, things like that. So it was all financial based but some strategy and then with the engineers to understand, just like the, the inputs for the costs.

Daniel Koo:

Did you miss the engineering at all? Like, do you?

Deborah Kwon:

No, I was like, oh, I'm glad they told me not to do that. I liked being on the. You know the client side with the money.

Daniel Koo:

That's a good place to be Interesting and it seems like you've really found the field that you're most interested in and you're kind of stabilized in that field.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, I really thought, oh gosh, this is something I could do a long time, right? And then my husband did move down to LA eventually to do another residency, so he followed me down this time.

Daniel Koo:

Okay, so now you're together. Yeah, now we're together again, and then I continue at Disney, and then we could talk about Universal if you wanted to, yeah, the next step would be Universal, and I think here there's an important lesson to be learned about mentorship. You just explained how it was your dream job, but I guess what kind of led you to move on to a different company.

Deborah Kwon:

Yes, so my boss, he moved to Universal Creative so that was the imaginary kind of counterpart at Universal and they were on a big international expansion and they were growing the group. So he brought me on and I got to do so much more than I ever imagined at that age I think I was only about like 26 or seven, maybe like your age. Yeah so much more than I ever imagined, and it was all international.

Daniel Koo:

So then we got to travel a lot at that company what was kind of like the size and impact of your work. I just kind of want to know the scale at which, um, you're kind of operating.

Deborah Kwon:

One project was like a ground up project and it was in singapore, and so it was like working with asians for the first time. I was like, oh gosh, I was so happy.

Deborah Kwon:

So it was like ground up there was Sentosa Island. I think Universal has a project there now, but Sentosa Island was the space but really there was nothing there but dirt. So it was from the ground up master planning a whole new theme park and then just figuring out what to do and how to present it to the senior management to get approval and working with the government. Actually we worked a lot with the development folks over at Singapore.

Daniel Koo:

So you and your team were kind of really responsible for the whole, like starting up the whole project.

Deborah Kwon:

It was like carte blanche, like you could figure this out. So that was really exciting and we had a good budget. I was able to interview consultants to hire them. We had people like drawing up plans for different ideas of you know the different lands we had, like we had we had certain like properties. You know the different lands we had, like we had certain like properties. You know, like I think we had Marvel at the time, a lot of Steven Spielberg properties. So you know, like Jurassic Park and those kinds of things.

Daniel Koo:

Oh, properties as in kind of like assets.

Deborah Kwon:

Assets. Yeah, okay, I see. So we could use those to do whatever ride we wanted. So of course, you would lift whatever's most popular from the other parks, but you could create new rides. You could create new ideas. It's interesting the strategy for Universal was off-the-shelf rides, like they would just buy a coaster and then theme it to the Universal style, whereas Disney would build like custom straight.

Daniel Koo:

You know know, they were much more expensive I think that's so interesting, the way you say off the shelf rides. Yeah, um, I guess there are roller coasters that are just kind of pre-made and or pre-planned.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, a lot of them like made in europe, like germany and things like that yeah, you just and then all those other parks are just, you know, like six flags. They just buy it off the shelf and they don't do anything to it, they just call it something. Just go to Walmart and just pick out a little coaster yeah yeah, and they just put a name on it and they don't do anything. But you know, Universal.

Daniel Koo:

That's super interesting.

Deborah Kwon:

You know Legoland, they would, you know, make it, brand it their way. I see, and I assume those are are really hard to customize um once like I guess there's like a whole brand that does pre-plan once, and then there's like a customizable option no, I think you just buy it off the shelf and then the universal team or the lego land team they, they have the teams that would customize it.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, and then you would hire consultants, you know, who understand like mechanical engineering, and you know all sorts of other things that you would have to know.

Daniel Koo:

So you're, you know 26, 27, you're hiring people, you're you know managing a huge project and you've mentioned before that you felt very confident by this, by this point.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, I think. I think I had much more laid back and a lot not as formal, like I was able to wear pants at work. I wasn't able to wear pants in New York and there were a lot more women, you know, and also it's the nature of the industry too, consulting, like there was not a lot of women partners, you know, and not as many mentors, and it was also the time in the 90s, whereas now it's like almost the 2000s and you know, and not as many mentors. And it was also the time, and in the 90s, whereas now I'm like almost the 2000s and you know there's a lot more, I don't know, just more gender parody, I think, and California so when you moved on to Universal Studios, I assume that it was probably a really good move for you, yeah and you I did, and you really enjoyed it there as well I did.

Deborah Kwon:

I would still say that's my favorite job still.

Daniel Koo:

So far, everywhere you worked at, it was like, or I guess not everywhere, but Disney was very great to you as well. But was Universal kind of good in a different way?

Deborah Kwon:

It was different because of my role and just the support I had from my boss. You know just he trusted me to do, gave me so much latitude, more than somebody my age would have.

Daniel Koo:

How did you come across this role and how did you kind of acquire the job?

Deborah Kwon:

You mean the Universal one? Mm-hmm, oh, it was just because I worked on a big project with him, with my boss at Disney.

Daniel Koo:

And then your boss was able to kind of pull you in into that.

Deborah Kwon:

When he got recruited to Universal he like said hey, if you're interested in moving, I think I have a role for you. So it took a few months, but then I joined him later.

Daniel Koo:

So after Universal you end up back in New York somehow what was kind of like the scenario there, and you had to get a whole new job as well.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, so my husband finished his residency and wanted to work in New York, so we had to move for his job. So I said goodbye to Universal, which was really sad. I hired my replacement and then I had to hit the pavement in New York City to see what else I could do next. And there wasn't theme park presence there and in New York it's mostly media and entertainment. So I looked at different opportunities there, but I was looking at what are the big companies in New York City.

Daniel Koo:

Because I was always interested in fashion and New York City is fashion.

Deborah Kwon:

So I interviewed at Calvin Klein and Ralph Lauren and Coach J Crew. It was interesting, but I realized that the creative was king there and the financial groups were, you know, very, I guess, not as impactful, no, and I think they're just not run very well. So I think I did have a mentor, a good friend, who was in the business that said don't do this. But I did have a detour. When I first moved to New York while I was looking for a job, I did have a friend, a college friend, who worked at a startup and it was called Video Fashion. It was in fashion, worked at a startup and it was called Video Fashion. It was in fashion and they had a whole library of like VHS and all these old tapes and the internet was growing so it was to digitize all that and sell content.

Deborah Kwon:

So I tried to work for a startup for a few months but it was a disaster for me. I realized I needed structure. It was just chaos. I think. People who can deal with a lot of uncertainties. It's good for them. But the hours were crazy. The people were coming in and out and you could be doing strategy on, you know, in the morning and then like booking flights for all these people in the afternoon, like I just needed more structure.

Daniel Koo:

I think it's also good to know that about yourself, where I've been in a startup before and for engineers, you know you do a diverse set of roles. But kind of in the engineering space, where you know you're not only a backend engineer, frontend engineer, you kind of have to do everything. And I assume for business and finance it's a whole mixture of things. You know there's hiring, there's financial planning, but there's also random stuff like emailing someone.

Deborah Kwon:

Oh yeah, and organizing meetings, yeah, you have to do everything.

Daniel Koo:

And I was like.

Deborah Kwon:

You know, I want to. You know, I want my role to be more defined.

Daniel Koo:

I'm also curious for finance, just because I don't know the industry that well. Is it difficult to do finance in a different industry? Is it completely different?

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, it depends, because finance could be part of more accounting and that is probably transferable to many industries. But then if there's finance, more strategic planning and business development, that's more industry specific. So I think if you're more accounting focused, then you can probably transfer much more easily. But mine was more related to the industry.

Daniel Koo:

So you end up going to A&E Television as manager of financial planning and analysis.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah.

Daniel Koo:

How did you find this role and, I guess, how did you kind of ease into it?

Deborah Kwon:

So this one was not through networking Actually I think I did. A friend told me about a recruiter, so this was a headhunter. Oh, okay. Right. So I don't know if people use recruiters these days, but I met with a recruiter and he introduced me to a bunch of jobs and I said I wanted the A&E one. So then he pitched me to A&E and then I met with a bunch of people and got the job. So that was it was a recruiter, not necessarily like a friend of a friend.

Daniel Koo:

It wasn't like you looked up a job posting and you were applying right.

Deborah Kwon:

I mean, in those days we didn't have like full-blown internet. The first thing, the first time I used that was something called Monstercom.

Daniel Koo:

Oh yes, Do you remember that? Yeah.

Deborah Kwon:

I actually did, that's. The next job was with Monstercom, but it was again through friends. At that time it was way less applicants and then now, with remote people could apply from all over the world, but at that time you had to live in that area.

Daniel Koo:

You're just competing with the local kind of area, Correct?

Deborah Kwon:

yeah, competing with the local talent.

Daniel Koo:

How was your life at A&E Television? Did you feel like it was a field that you liked? I mean, it's very different from theme parks.

Deborah Kwon:

Yes, it's exciting because it was all new vocabulary, like all new. The industry is completely different, a whole different revenue model. You know, like it was cable, so cable television. Back then, and what we did in my group, we talked a lot about convergence, about how the internet and television was going to converge. So, we were just contemplating when that happens.

Daniel Koo:

I mean that's like that's YouTube, basically.

Deborah Kwon:

Yes, that's YouTube, and back then it was about video on demand. Can you imagine skipping through commercials, right?

Daniel Koo:

Can you?

Deborah Kwon:

imagine skipping through commercials. So we used to contemplate the future a lot of how digital will take over all of media. That's funny, because they dreamt of skipping ads, but now we're stuck with ads, with YouTube, right, then that's how they get you to pay, right, because it really is like how do you pay for this content? Yeah, so we used to contemplate that a lot, I see.

Daniel Koo:

So after that I want to ask you about family at this point.

Deborah Kwon:

Did you have children at this point or were you planning to? No, we were thinking about it, but then he decided he wanted to come back to California.

Daniel Koo:

Oh, before you started a family.

Deborah Kwon:

Yes, before we started a family. But I really enjoyed A&E a lot because I'd learned a whole new industry and what I learned from that job was I worked for these huge corporations with a lot of politics. A&e was a private company but it was owned by Disney. But it was private and it was very profitable, so they gave us a lot of leeway and I enjoyed working for a more medium-sized company where I would talk to the CFO and CEO all the time. They were on the same floor. They would just pop by, we would talk about a project. So I loved having access to senior management with a smaller company. I thought that was really exciting and I love that.

Deborah Kwon:

This role FP&A is a role that a lot of companies have. Bigger companies have and they do more reporting about revenues or they do some sort of like routine reporting and then they also do special projects. But as a consultant or at Disney Universal, I always just only worked on projects. So I liked having some stability of doing some routine reporting work. So I would be projecting revenues or projecting certain subscribers. I would be projecting figures and then I would get actuals, like you know, a month later. So it was like a report card Like how did I project the future? And then I would have to report variance. And you know it was a political, you know year, so we had more ad revenue or like I would have to report all that kind of stuff.

Deborah Kwon:

So I thought that was interesting to have that kind of routine aspect of a job and a project aspect of a job.

Daniel Koo:

By that point, all of this work was kind of you already knew how to do it right. You already had the skills to do so.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, I think yeah, for any industry. I think I could have gone to something you know similar and been able to use, like the like these, like financial tools at that time.

Daniel Koo:

Yeah, and you mentioned that, uh, you really liked that you had access to you know, management and things like that. Why was that? Is that because it gives you a lot more clarity into the direction of the company, or why was that good for you?

Deborah Kwon:

I think when you're at large companies I remember at Disney we would be doing a project all night and the next day you would get feedback from somebody we did it all wrong. We got to do something all over again and we'd be like, why? So when you're, like you know, on the lower ranks, all these things change. People complain and you don't know why. But I think when you're close to management, you know why things are changing. So it makes sense, so you don't complain about it. So people who don't know why things are changing, it's just confusing and it just feels like you know more busy work.

Deborah Kwon:

I think so, and it was just empowering to know, like, okay, these things are coming down the line, people are not going to be happy, but at least I know why it's going to happen, whereas before I would hear and complain. Be one of the complainers.

Daniel Koo:

Yeah, I think that's very good to know. If you care a lot about clarity and understanding why there's changes, I'm sure that's important for a lot of people.

Daniel Koo:

You know I work at Amazon as a software engineer, I'm pretty much at the end, the bottom node of the entire chain, and there's very big shifts that happen and oftentimes we're not really given a lot of information and being able to ask people. That's why we had those town hall meetings and things like that to kind of resolve a lot of those questions. But the explanation usually comes after the decision has been, you know, made and everything's been set. So you know it'd be. I guess it would be very empowering to kind of get ahead of that and be part of the conversation as well.

Deborah Kwon:

Exactly, exactly. So that's where all the complaining and all the gossip. But I would say not all senior managers. They're probably not as forthcoming, they're not telling 100% truth on what's going to happen.

Daniel Koo:

Yeah, I also wanted to ask so we've went over a lot of your experience I'm curious what you think makes someone invaluable to their employer. Because I think you mentioned before not in this podcast, but you know in order to kind of move up or do well at your company, you want to make sure you basically help your boss do their job even easier and better. So I want to know what your thoughts are on that.

Deborah Kwon:

I think you want to have skill sets that your boss doesn't have or other teammates don't have. So maybe you know how to use a certain software that others don't know, or you just could do financial analysis nobody else can do it, or whatever. But so having different skill sets, but also kind of reading your boss's mind and just making that person's job easier, right, and then making that person look good and your team look good and therefore you'll look good. But I think you need a lot of EQ for this. I think in the job world, like school, is good for your IQ, right, but in the job world it's more EQ leading. I think that's going to help you grow. So if you can read what's needed in the project and you do it before you're asked or you suggest things, that's going to make the boss's job easier. That's going to make you invaluable.

Daniel Koo:

Let's talk about more family side. Yeah, so you end up coming back to California and you decide to start a family, and I'm sure it couldn't have been easy to start a family and work at the same time and I kind of want to know how you made those decisions and what you had to go through and what you ended up doing.

Deborah Kwon:

So we were in New York City and my husband wants to come back to California, so now I have to quit another job that I like and come find a new job here. So I ended up at Disneyland Resort and that's similar to what I was doing before at Disney, except it was very focused on Disneyland in Anaheim, not necessarily like all of the parks in the world, so it was just Disneyland. So I worked there for I don't know almost a year, I think, but I was pregnant and I didn't think I wanted to. I want to take some time off. So that's what a lot of people do, is they take some time off for their kids.

Deborah Kwon:

And during that time I took two years off. So I was glad to have my kids were back to back and I think that's very efficient. So that was good. They're 18 months apart, so they were back to back. And then I did go back to working for a coffee company a whole different. Now this is consumer products, but because at disneyland I worked in food and beverage okay, so there was some connection there was a big connection there, right so.

Deborah Kwon:

So again, it was all a little bit adjacent. It's not completely turning to a new industry, but it was all a little bit. You know it's related. So, um, I worked forrich Coffee but I didn't want to be hired on staff. They've asked me to be hired on staff, but I wanted to stay a consultant so I can control my hours.

Daniel Koo:

And you did that kind of purposefully so that you could spend more time with family.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, I said I want to only work nine to five, like literally nine to five, not eight to seven, nine to nine, literally nine to five, not eight to seven.

Daniel Koo:

Nine to nine.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, so because it's an hourly consulting type role, I left when I needed to leave, so I felt good about doing that rather than being an employee, which would have been much, much harder to do that.

Daniel Koo:

And, as a mother of two, I want to ask you how have you balanced your professional ambitions with family responsibility? I assume that that would be very difficult to manage. Did you have a priority in mind, or, I guess, what was your decision criteria when you were making these career decisions?

Deborah Kwon:

So I always said family first. If there was something wrong with the kids, I would leave work immediately. I was very careful to find a job that was very close to my home also, so I could get home in 15 minutes. So, and at this time the kids were going to preschool, so I would drop them off at preschool and I had a full-time nanny and then I was able to just manage for a few years like that. But yeah, the priority was the kids, for sure.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, so you just have to make sure that I was flexible, so I made sure that I had my hours like very clear.

Daniel Koo:

I think part of what kind of gave you a lot of advantages is your career until before having kids were actually it was actually like a lot, like you've gone through a lot and you've done a lot before that and I think that gave you kind of like the leverage and the I guess the possibility of having a flexible kind of working environment.

Deborah Kwon:

I think so. I think that's a good way to put it. I felt very confident that I could just say this is what I want, and if they said no, I could just walk.

Daniel Koo:

I just go find something else.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, I'll just find something else. But I did develop a really good relationship with the CEO that I'm still in contact with today and I think one of the things that was helpful when we were working together is whenever I'd write presentations especially like board of directors or any big decisions when we'd go through the deck he'd always have a question and I'd always say it's on the next page or it's later. So I think he loved that. He loved that I would anticipate his questions and I would answer it eventually and he always said I love that you were answering my questions. I would say, whenever you're presenting, just anticipate what the questions are going to be, because they're going to poke we used to say everyone's going to poke holes at all your assumptions like how did you think of that? Why I just have an answer for all those things you know.

Daniel Koo:

Make sure it's on the next page.

Deborah Kwon:

Yeah, just be prepared yeah, like anticipate every question you're going to get, because you're going to lose credibility, especially if you're in a room with people you don't know and you can't answer basic questions. You're done.

Daniel Koo:

Right, that's true. So after you have kids and you have a family now, did you continue working part-time?

Deborah Kwon:

So after the Diedrich, actually what happened was the company was sold, and that was the goal of the project was to sell the company. So the project was sold. So that was done. I worked there full time four years and then around that same time I was looking. I knew that the end was near for that project. And that's when I talked to my college roommate who said she was looking for other people to do this job. They want somebody who had some engineering experience and business experience. So I applied for that job and she supported me and I was able to do that for 16 years now.

Daniel Koo:

Wow. As we're nearing the end of the episode, I want to ask if there's any advice to people who want to have a family and a career at the same time. I think the audience could be anyone. Really, nowadays, everyone wants both and we feel like it's very tough, so is there something you can say, jess?

Deborah Kwon:

It is really hard. I think, if you can have a boss or a mentor who can allow the flexible hours and with this hybrid remote work that allows the flexible hours, so that's helpful, so that at certain parts of the day you could be available for the kids, but then you're working at night also, so the flexibility and also you want to have some purpose in your job. I think if you're just, you know, if you are lucky enough to be able to feel connected to your job, feeling like you're doing something important, that'll motivate you to get through balancing work and family.

Daniel Koo:

As one of the last questions to whom would you recommend this kind of finance career and to whom would you not recommend it?

Deborah Kwon:

would you not recommend it? So finance is so broad, so finance means so many different things in different industries and the job titles are different. Like the FP&A is very different than strategic planning and finance, right. But I think someone who's high level thinking, very analytical obviously but engineers love finance because it's a lot of numbers and it's a lot of analysis. I don't think personality matters as much, but someone who's attention to detail and who can communicate the numbers. I think what makes you more valuable than just being a financial person and just being able to run numbers is to communicate what those numbers mean and what kind of action you should take because of those numbers and what the trends are and just what's the insight from the numbers. So somebody who has good insight and communication skills to be able to articulate that.

Daniel Koo:

Let's say there's someone out there listening and they want to do exactly what you do. What is one piece of advice you'd get to that person?

Deborah Kwon:

But what exactly do I do? There's nothing exactly that I do, so I have no idea. I just followed whatever was in front of me and just made the best decision I could at that time. So just follow your heart, you know, ask a lot of questions and just try things, just try new things, and I don't know pray.

Daniel Koo:

Yeah, I think that's fair. Obviously, there isn't an answer. You know one answer that's going to rule them all right. So we talked about your past, we talked about your current. You know your present. Where is your career headed? Is there anything that you're looking forward to in the future?

Deborah Kwon:

I'm focusing more on nonprofits and just kind of giving back and seeing where my talents could help in the community. So right now I'm working with special needs kids for my friends foundation. But I mean, I've been studying a lot of different foundations and they're doing so many great things and I think I said before I want to try to see what I could do for the Asian American community, you know, in Southern California and beyond. So you know, I'm learning how to do like donor decks and just how to convince donors to donate to your cause, and that's a whole new area that I'm studying. But it's like doing a pitch deck for a startup. It's really the same thing, which is fun. So, yeah, we'll see. Like, even at this age, I still don't know what I want to do, so it's still continuing.

Daniel Koo:

Yep, thank you so much for your time. I think you know a few things. That I've learned today is your network is very important and although that word is a little, you know, it could be a little weird.

Deborah Kwon:

Off-putting for people, yeah, off-putting.

Daniel Koo:

But I think it's essentially the people you meet and the connections you make along the way. I also learned that you know, don't be afraid to switch paths and going from engineering to finance. We've actually had an example of that before. Our first episode with Eden Warner was kind of similar, and I think that's something that we should always keep in mind. You know, there could be a whole career out there that you did not expect, and listening to your friends, listening to your mentors, seemed like it gave you a lot of ideas. So that's something that I want to take forward and also implement in my life. So thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Deborah Kwon:

No, absolutely. I think it's always great to be curious and you know, when you see somebody doing an interesting job, just ask them what do you do? I mean, people love talking about themselves, so ask them about them.

Daniel Koo:

All right, thank you so much.

Deborah Kwon:

Thank you.