My Perfect Path
My Perfect Path is a podcast about uncovering the defining moments that shape meaningful careers.
Hosted by Daniel Koo, each episode features candid conversations with leaders, creatives, entrepreneurs, and professionals from all walks of life. Whether you’re exploring new opportunities, navigating a transition, or simply curious about how others found their way, this podcast offers real stories, practical insights, and inspiration to help you carve your own unique path—wherever you are in your journey.
🎧 Listen in and discover that there’s no one-size-fits-all path to success—just the one that’s right for you.
My Perfect Path
Advertising Executive to Nonprofit Founder - EdAccess Founder (former Viacom SVP,Time Warner VP)
What happens when you trust your gut and step off the expected career path? For Pam Haering, that decision transformed her life and eventually led to her most meaningful work.
Growing up in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, Pam was among the "lucky ones" whose parents prioritized education, setting her on a path to Dartmouth College. Initially pursuing pre-law studies based on others' expectations, she felt something crucial was missing during a prestigious law firm internship. "There was a whole side of myself that I didn't feel like I was opening up," she recalls. This pivotal realization led her to trust her instincts and pivot to advertising, where her strategic mind and creative spirit could both thrive.
At DDB Needham, Pam discovered her passion for brand marketing, working with clients like General Mills and Maybelline. Her career accelerated when Time Warner Turner recruited her to pioneer global integrated marketing during cable TV's explosive growth. Later, at Viacom, she built groundbreaking marketing initiatives that revolutionized how media companies worked with advertisers. Throughout these transitions, Pam cultivated relationships with innovative mentors who shaped her approach to leadership.
Motherhood presented another inflection point when her premature twins required her full attention. After stepping back from corporate life, Pam gradually found her way to educational consulting, working with schools serving first-generation students. These experiences ultimately led her to found Ed Access Lab, a nonprofit strengthening organizations that provide educational opportunities to underserved communities.
Pam's story reveals profound wisdom about career development: trust your instincts, intentionally seek mentors, and follow what genuinely lights you up. "Do what you love," she advises. "Stay true to what motivates you, who you are, and the opportunities will come." Most importantly, she demonstrates it's never too late to create something meaningful that brings together all your accumulated skills and passions.
Are you following a career path that truly engages all aspects of who you are? Listen now for inspiration to make your next move with confidence and purpose.
You know some of the things I evaluated some of these moves based on and this is a really important piece of advice I always give to people make sure you know who you're working for, right Like if you have the opportunity to change jobs and you know that you can work for really innovative, creative, risk-taking, great managers who care about growing.
Pamela Haering:You take it. You know, I looked at that hard and it was hard to leave some situations where I had really great managers cultivating, helping to cultivate me, and I had a chance to go where I felt like I could continue to learn with some great mentors in the space, real innovators. I mean, the people that were taking these risks had a lot of, you know, great experience and so they were very calculated risks, but they were visionary and I was able to learn from them, you know. And how do they evaluate something, how you know, how do they know that something's going to work? It's not just gut right, it's like what are you really looking for? And so, yes, I had a lot of mentorship. I had a lot of great mentors, really smart people, really innovative, all quite young in these spaces and so very relatable and very vested in the growth of people like me. That works for them, so I'm super thankful for that.
Daniel Koo:Hey, welcome back to my Perfect Path. For those of you who are new, I'm your host, daniel Koo, and I welcome you to season two. For me, at large, pivotal moments of my life, such as applying to new colleges, applying to new jobs or determining what next career move is right for me I spent time researching and finding mentorship to determine what was the best path for me. I spent time researching and finding mentorship to determine what was the best path for me. I knew that this struggle was not isolated to me. Everyone struggles with this, simply because we cannot predict the future. However, I found something that is second best to predicting the future it's learning from those ahead of our career and from those who've seen more and experienced more. After all, there are not that many problems that have not been solved yet. If you've ever felt unsure about your next career move, you're in the right place. I'm excited to continue season two with Pam Haering, founder of Ed Access Lab and former Viacom SVP.
Daniel Koo:Today's episode is called my Ed Access Path. It Is Never Too Late To Create. Pam built her career through major roles at J Walter Thompson, time Warner, turner and ultimately as SVP at Viacom, where she pioneered integrated marketing solutions during cable TV's explosive growth. She later founded her nonprofit, ed Access, focused on educational equity. What I love about this conversation is how Pam draws from decades of mentoring. She often starts stories with the words when I talk to kids, because she's been guiding first-generation college students for a very long time.
Daniel Koo:In this episode you'll learn how to trust your gut when a career path doesn't feel right, the power of intentional networking to accelerate your growth, strategies for balancing high-level ambition with family priorities, and how major life transitions can actually lead to your most meaningful work. Her story shows it's never too late to create something that matters. Hope you enjoy the episode. Pam, welcome to my Perfect Path. I'm so excited to have you on the show. Your story is not only accomplished but deeply inspiring from your early years growing up in Bethlehem, pennsylvania, to building a high-powered global career in marketing and advertising and now launching EdAccess to expand educational opportunities. I think your path reflects courage, reinvention and purpose at every stage of life. I know our listeners are going to get so much out of hearing from how you navigated big career pivots. You know balancing. You know ambition with family and ultimately using your experience to create meaningful impact. Thank you so much for being here.
Pamela Haering:Well, thank you. It's nice to have the opportunity to talk with you, Daniel.
Daniel Koo:Now tell me about what your day-to-day looks like right now. What's the most exciting project that you're working on?
Pamela Haering:Oh gosh. Well, I am working with a non-profit right now and they are out of Harvard Med School and it's a program that's sort of under their auspices, and it has been just a pleasure working with them. They were really looking for ways to thoughtfully grow and they realized that they were having all of these opportunities come in at the door and they weren't sure exactly how to evaluate them and they wanted to be much more strategic about how they evaluated how they were going to grow and what projects they were going to take on, and so they hired the EdAccess Lab to help them think through that. So they're just a wonderful client. We just enjoy every meeting we have with them.
Daniel Koo:How many schools do you work with? It seemed like there was a lot of partners.
Pamela Haering:Yeah, in fact, sometimes it'll be a school, sometimes it will be a nonprofit organization. In fact, most commonly it'll be a nonprofit education organization that works outside of public schools. They take students into programs that run on the weekends and in the summer and they're sort of enrichment programs that help prepare them for higher education, and they find them typically in middle school, and these are kids that are really talented and self-motivated, and these programs typically are fee-free not always, but often and so it allows students from all types of backgrounds to engage and get this kind of enrichment particularly, though, from first-gen low-income communities, from first-gen low-income communities and it helps them kind of forge a pathway toward higher education or post-secondary opportunities. And those are typically the organizations that we work with.
Daniel Koo:What's the impact that your work is able to give to these students?
Pamela Haering:And.
Daniel Koo:I just want to know the scale of your work and the number of people that you can potentially impact with your position.
Pamela Haering:Yeah, it's a great question and it's one of the things that we're trying to find ways to measure. Because when you do the type of work that we do, which is typically strategic, and you're working with the organization that directly influences the child, so we don't directly work with the students they do. But the way that we have impact is we thoughtfully help them think about ways to grow, to reach more students through scaling, and that can look a lot of different ways. I mean it can look like going to a different country, a different state, or it can look like deepening programs in the area that they're currently in, and so the way it really impacts students is the organization is fortified, it's stronger, you know, it's more thoughtful about how it's spending its money and its resources, and so they can effectively affect more students.
Pamela Haering:The biggest worry the gap that I found when I, you know, when I was originally in my first program at Harvard, I did some research in this space to really find out where the gaps were and why it was that students were fewer. Students were going to hire from first-gen low-income, you know backgrounds were going at a lower rate into higher education. Some of it was due to the pandemic. This was all sort of happening during the pandemic, and a lot of these students had to drop out and find work that would pay them, so they would drop away from school, and school was just not on the docket for them because they were trying to keep their families afloat. And so what we were trying to do was, you know, see what it would take to fortify organizations that were doing this work so that they wouldn't be as vulnerable, because it takes a lot of money to do this work and it takes very dedicated benefactors to support these organizations typically, and so they get a lot of private fundings from family foundations and such. But if you had a primary funder who might've been, you know, highly engaged, drop away, then that organization could be in trouble and they might have to shutter their organization, and that was what was bothering me.
Pamela Haering:That means that fewer kids get access to these resources, fewer kids are able to find their pathway to higher education or post-secondary employment, and so I wanted to make sure that wasn't happening, and our focus is primarily with smaller and medium-sized organizations that I described earlier, because they were the most vulnerable, and so fortifying them through this type of work and making it affordable for them. They don't have people on staff typically that can help them with a communications plan or a development plan. They don't have a development person, they don't have a strategic planner, and they can't afford them. They're small nonprofits, and so to go outside is typically very, very expensive, and so to get a high-profile consultancy engaged can be upwards of a half a million dollars to do that, and these organizations are just not large enough to do that. So the idea of the EdAccess Lab was to really create an organization that would go in not even under market, but almost on a sliding scale and at times for free if needed, to actually make these organizations do the work they need to do to fortify and grow.
Daniel Koo:Yeah, I think the impact that you have with these vulnerable populations are amazing and I really want to dig into how you got to this position and to be able to serve this population and also to know how you came up with this idea and what your motivations are for for helping these people. I think you know, when we look at our jobs, we often struggle with meaning. You know, in the beginning, obviously people jump into corporate jobs and whatnot they, you know, grind and grind and grind but, at the end of the day, it's like who are we helping, right?
Daniel Koo:So I really want to kind of dig into that with you and to find meaning and you know how we can have more impact in our lives, like really true, positive, good impact. So what I want to ask you is did you always envision this kind of work coming into your career, and or did you not expect this at all?
Pamela Haering:Well, I wanted to make sure it was always a part of my life. So I don't know if you want me to get into it now or later, but I had quite a journey to this place and I grew up in Bethlehem, pennsylvania. It was a thriving steel town when I was a child and it kind of shut down in the mid-80s. But I was one of the lucky ones my brother as well. Because of my parents they were very focused on education, and so my brother and I were able to get out and find a pathway to just incredible schools, and that was very unusual at the time. That didn't happen often. Many of my classmates some of them didn't go on to any kind of higher education. Some of them started working right away, they went into the military, and so we feel very fortunate that our parents really put up a high bar academically for us and encouraged us to shoot high and to do everything we could to go to the best school that we could get into. And so, because we were sort of the lucky ones, I knew that I always wanted it to be a part of my world too.
Pamela Haering:If it's a hobby or if it's a main career, it started as a sort of something that I did on the side, but I've always mentored first-gen low-income students starting right out of college, because I graduated I went into the advertising industry, I was living and working in Chicago, illinois, and I had the opportunity through a program through Dartmouth College.
Pamela Haering:They actually had communities there that they worked with and I was able to mentor students while I was there and that has always been a big piece of my work. In fact, I work with first-gen students also at Dartmouth College now. So juniors, sophomores, juniors and seniors mostly women who are trying to think about their futures and where they're going, and they're looking for people who have walked those roads and also that understand where they've come from and what it means to walk those roads. It's not easy and it can take a long time, so I wanted to always have that be a part of my life and it started with mentoring and it moved from there into an opportunity that I had later in my life kind of while I was still working in my kind of corporate world to work with a school in Southern California that had a very large first-gen population as a part of its composition.
Daniel Koo:Actually, yeah. So before we go into that, let's talk about the episode title first, my Ed Access Path. It Is Never Too Late to Create. Yes, can you share why that name fits your story?
Pamela Haering:Yes, yes, because I truly believe that I found my calling. I mean, I had just a wonderful career trajectory and I think I am thankful for every minute and every experience I had getting to here. But this is my true life calling is to use the skills that I've acquired along the way to do the work that I care most about, which is serving these first-gen low-income populations and ensuring they have the chance that I had to actually experience higher education. A lot of them that I've worked with over the years believe that they can't do it. They have family accountabilities, there are financial reasons why not? They don't have role models that can help them, and so I wanted to be that role model. But I feel like it's never too late to create is so appropriate for me because, you know, with my partners, I've created this nonprofit that really does the work that I care more about than anything right now in the world, and I'm just really blessed to be able to do this work in this way.
Daniel Koo:So for context, from a high level, could you describe your experiences in, maybe, stages of life, so what are kind of like the big conceptual, like sections of life that you would organize your experiences in?
Pamela Haering:Well, probably, obviously childhood, college, post-college, like early employment. So my first couple of jobs in advertising and marketing. Then I moved into the media industry, which was a pivotal. It was a change, it was related but it was a change, and motherhood was a big pivot for me. And balancing my career aspirations with that and then returning to school as a more mature woman, having a chance to go back in one, not one, but two programs and ending up getting my master's and then launching. Lastly, launching the Ed Access Lab, which is the nonprofit.
Daniel Koo:So, yeah, I want to get to how you got to EdAccess, I think, which is, you know, kind of like the finale or kind of like the climax of the story. And if we go into your early years, can you tell me about, maybe, your parents and early environment and how that shaped your drive and priorities?
Pamela Haering:Yes, well, I touched a little bit on that so I won't go too deep into the early early years. But I, you know, as I said, I grew up in Bethlehem, pennsylvania. I had an older brother, so it was just the four of us my parents and my brother and I. And you know, my father was the first in his family to ever go to college and it had a profound impact on him. And because my mother never went to college and completed it she started but never completed it that had a profound impact on her. That had a profound impact on her both creating an environment that know, focused and generous with us in making this opportunity available. Most kids don't have that opportunity and my brother and I are both really thankful for it.
Daniel Koo:So you mentioned that you know they supported your education. What kind of form did that come in? So was that you know paying supported your education? What kind of form did that come in? So was that you know paying for tutors or like, was it encouragement or was that, I don't know, giving you ideas on what to work on.
Pamela Haering:Yeah, first there was just this expectation that we were going to college like just for the parents to have that expectation for their children is not always the case. I work with so many families and kids that that's not the case In fact it's the opposite is that you'll get a job and you'll help the family, and so they did whatever we needed in order to make that possible. I can remember my dad saying you know, you just focus on getting into the best school you can get into and we'll make sure we help to make that happen. We'll do everything we can to help to make that happen. And it wasn't until much later in my life that I realized the great sacrifice they made to make that possible for us. So we're very my brother and I are very appreciative for that.
Daniel Koo:Yeah, I think that kind of encouragement, of that kind of expectation, can really, you know, change how you look at yourself as well, and I'm sure that was a huge encouragement.
Pamela Haering:Yeah.
Daniel Koo:You know I can. I can see similar things. You know my parents were always very education focused. You know they supported me with. You know tutoring and private education as well and you know it really sets a good expectation for myself and keeps like a very high standard of what I need to aspire to. Sometimes it can be a little bit of pressure but you know it ultimately like a very good thing where you know you have high expectations for yourself and it seems like you know that belief in you and you know that expectation of going to college really worked because you ended up going to a fantastic school Dartmouth and your brother as well going to Princeton. What was your experience like there? I know you mentioned a little bit about potentially going into law and experimenting and kind of trying things out there, but what was, you know, your main focus? What did you want to achieve during your college years?
Pamela Haering:It's funny. I went off to college not being so very clear and I can also remember my parents saying you know, based on what I see you, you know thriving, you know where I see you thriving. You know you might be a good lawyer, you know you like to, you know you like to write, you like to argue, like maybe you would like to do that, and that kind of just stuck with me. You know I find this true of many young people that I work with too that they're not always so sure you know when you have, when you're, when you have some skills that you know, how do you choose which one to really capitalize upon. You know it's hard, and, and so that was what stuck with me, and and I didn't, I have to say, at 18, 19, I didn't question it a whole lot, I just kind of dove in and I said you know what, this will be my major, this will be my minor, and, um, I'll see how it goes. And the truth was that that major and that minor were not perfect for me. You know what I mean. They were interesting at times, but they did not fuel my curiosity the way I had hoped they would, and that was a deep learning, like a moment.
Pamela Haering:That was a pivot point for me, where when I actually took on, you know, an internship at a fabulous firm with a career that I thought I wanted you know, an internship at a fabulous firm with a career that I thought I wanted you know for a good part of my young life and I realized that wasn't it. That wasn't it. There was as good as it was. There was so much missing. There was a whole side of myself that I didn't feel like I was opening up. I had realized along the way that I could see things in a creative way, that I was, you know, very. You know I was strategic at times. I had this right and left brain going on. That's why law did make sense on some level, but this whole other part of me was not being fed and that's what led me to kind of put the brakes on that and it was terrifying. I remember being really scared to say, my God, I'm, like you know, almost through my college experience and I can't change my major now.
Daniel Koo:It's like what am I going to?
Pamela Haering:do, and so I threw, as a last resort I threw myself into corporate recruiting and I believe they still do this on campuses where they bring top you know banks and law firms and you know corporations and consultancies. They bring them all up to campus and they get kind of first dibs on students early. They get to interview students and pick who they want way before the cycle begins.
Daniel Koo:Before we go into your corporate recruiting, what were some of the things that kind of pushed you over the edge on not pursuing a law career? So what were kind of like the really telltale signs for you that this is not what I want to do? And I know you mentioned, you know like the creative aspect of it. But I'm imagining there maybe are some like certain scenarios or there's a point, maybe like an interaction with someone, where you're thinking, oh, this is not going to be something I want to do.
Pamela Haering:You know, interpreting the law is well, I don't want to. How do I say it? I had hoped it would be something that would really light me up and that didn't me up and and that didn't the the research that I was doing was I always loved learning, but it it didn't. I didn't feel it. You know, I always tell kids when they go to a campus, right, and they're looking at a school and they're so nervous and they're looking at eight or ten, whatever it is, and and I'll say, you're just just going to know, you're going to know, you're going to feel it in your gut, you're going to walk on that campus, you're going to meet the kids that are there, you're going to sit in a class and you're going to know, and you're not going to have a lot of second doubts about that. And it's so often the way it happens. Didn't you know that what it would have taken to get to a level that would have been actually super interesting, would have taken years to become a partner as a woman, would have been a very long and hard road, and it, it it could have compromised my vision for wanting to have a work-life balance, like I have a family and and so all of those things. It was just like I wasn't feeling it. I didn't see anything that I was experiencing that made me feel it, and so it was a personal choice. You know, it was and and it was.
Pamela Haering:I just remember being honestly, when I use the word terrified, that's what I felt, because I didn't have a safety net. I wasn't going back to Bethlehem after having experienced this world and and the world through Dartmouth, like I. I was off term, you know I was. I was working in, you know, major organizations, I was working for state government, I had traveled abroad, I had lived with families abroad. It was amazing. So I wasn't going back and so I was kind of terrified. What would the future hold? I'm not really sure. So that was the first pivot point.
Daniel Koo:So it seems like you use your gut feeling a lot, so you really listen to yourself and your feelings and kind of like the overall situation, kind of experience and you know, with the outlook of work-life balance and having a family like it's. You know it's. It's a very intentional decision that you had to make.
Pamela Haering:You know, if someone would have said that it's it was too early to make that decision. I should have gone to law school and should have seen, but it was a three-year investment and it was going to be hard for me to make that investment and so I better be sure. And I wasn't. So I decided I needed some more life experience to figure out, you know, if it was that or not, that or something else.
Daniel Koo:It seems like you did exactly that, though, when you went into corporate recruiting, and now you kind of dove into kind of a different career, and can you share with us a little bit about what that kind of new career was like and why you ended up choosing that?
Pamela Haering:Yeah, something inside of me told me that I was going to really love marketing. I knew some people in that that had gone into that realm and I had talked to them about it and it really married sort of the strategic, the business side with the creative side. And so that's where I focused my efforts in corporate recruiting and I was really lucky that, you know, dartmouth had a bunch of, you know they had P&G coming up, they had, you know, j Walter Thompson. They had so many DDV Needham was coming up and so they had amazing from all over the United States, amazing kind of global brands coming up to try to find talent early. And so I focused on marketing.
Pamela Haering:There were a lot of different opportunities either on the brand management side, on the advertising side, and I was lucky enough to have gotten offers at two advertising agencies, one in New York and one in Chicago. And that was a hard decision, you know. But I thought Chicago would feel a little bit better for me, coming from such a kind of a smaller town environment, smaller school in New Hampshire, right, and I thought you know, if I'm going to experience the city, I don't know if I'm ready for New York, living with five women in some small place, I thought that maybe Chicago would be great and it was. And it was and I took a job with DDB Needham. So Needham Harper and Steers was merging with DDB out of New York and I got an offer at the New York office of DDB and Neenah Harper and Steers in Chicago, which was great, and so it felt right from the get-go.
Pamela Haering:The moment that I started it felt right. The community that I was working in, the type of work I was doing, I was being challenged and experiencing brand new things. Yet they had a training program which was great for their new hires and so that was really important, I think, in helping to get me grounded in that industry, because it was so new. But it was fantastic from the start. I loved it, it was a highlight.
Daniel Koo:What were some of your expectations going into advertising and what were some things that surprised you? And I think in the context of maybe someone potentially looking into going into this advertising field, you know what are some things they should know about.
Pamela Haering:You know, advertising seems so glamorous from the outside you know you see these ads and how cool, and you know you have celebrities and these ads and it seems so glamorous from the outside and there is that edge of it too. But really, and there is that edge of it too, but really I was on the account management side of it. I worked with creative teams and research teams and media buyers, but I was there coordinating and integrating on behalf of a client, so I was working hand in hand with a client. My first client was General Mills. My second client was Maybelline. You know cosmetics, and so I learned a lot about brand marketing because we were helping them do the competitive analyses. You know the cost analyses. We were looking at packaging, we were developing packaging for them. Everything that they were doing we were doing hand-in-hand with them, truly as a partner. And so what would be surprising is that it's business Like.
Pamela Haering:My piece of it was business, you know, and I love that. That really spoke to me. But at the same time, my favorite part of that job was writing a creative brief and taking it to the creative team and working with the creative team to generate something that was on strategy. You know what the client expected but that the consumer had never seen before. You know that was really innovative and so they did most of that work, but without the other side, you know, to balance out. You know those great ideas.
Pamela Haering:So it was a real partnership and I loved that about it. So I think the biggest surprise is that it's business, but there was also this piece of it that was a lot of fun. I went to Los Angeles for the first time on a product shoot or on a commercial shoot, and just really seeing how that end of it worked was that was some of it was glamour, some of it was you know, long and hard, long hours, hard, client unhappy. You're there making the client happy. You know making changes. The creatives don't want to hear from you, but you have to make this change.
Pamela Haering:So you know, I developed a lot of people skills, developed a lot of strategic skills and I really my creative side, and so it was. It was a perfect fit for me. In fact it was. It was hard to leave.
Daniel Koo:It was hard to leave it yeah, I think, um, you know, being part of a very big initiative like that, with many moving parts and I, you know it sounds really fun. I think I can kind of imagine, or if I, if I imagine what that would have looked like. You know, you're juggling multiple things, you have photo shoots, you have video shoots going on and you're working with so many talent. I think that would be really fun. But for you back then, what did success look for you and what was going through your mind for, like, long-term planning? Did you feel like you wanted to stay there? Were you thinking of, just maybe like job hopping? I know that's a thing.
Pamela Haering:Yeah, what, it wasn't a big thing in in my time and space. A lot of people would stay in an industry for a very long time and just grow within that industry. And I grew within that industry for a long time and I and I loved it. I love the more. It's funny, it's like the more responsibility you got, the more exciting it was, the more exposure you got and then but the higher the stakes and so it was very even at the lower levels. You know everybody keeping a high profile client like that satisfied, happy, you know, with the work and and it's all under a very tight timetable something might happen in the industry and they need to respond and they need an ad like and so you're in the middle of a huge campaign with five pullouts and you got to stop that and you got to shift and it's really there's a lot of pressure that came with that.
Pamela Haering:I never aspired to leave advertising actually and I would not have left had I not gotten a call from a headhunter and that's usually how it happened.
Pamela Haering:I was one of those really fortunate people that usually left their job a lot and so I made a shift out of advertising into the media industry because I had worked on multiple global brands and they needed somebody to run global ad sales for them and it was Time Warner Turner at the time.
Pamela Haering:So it was like CNN and Cartoon Network and all the Turner brands Time Warner brands as well. So they needed somebody to work, based in the US but internationally, for them, and so I had teams in like eight different countries and I was based in the US but I was mostly abroad during those years and it was that was so exciting. The growth trajectory that that promised me was why I left advertising, because I was going to be growing so quickly and on a global scale and I could learn so much that that's why I made the shift, and I knew I could parlay the valuable things that I had learned in my first couple of jobs and I could leverage them to really make a difference in this space, and it just seemed like a great fit and a great growth opportunity for me.
Daniel Koo:So for that headhunter to find you what is something that caught their eye, what was the most attractive piece from your career in advertising? That they would come find you and to bring you to this new company to work on a bigger scale.
Pamela Haering:I'm not exactly sure their methodology, but they were given a profile of the type of person and they typically call around in adjacent industries. You know who is at this level can do this, has the skill set really, you know stands out for these qualities. You know is what is creative, or is people focused or super strategic, or you know all those things or not. You know, like they had whatever they wanted to. You know and, and so I think it came through, probably eventually, word of mouth, like who they knew from calling around and you know, looking at profiles of of different people that might be appropriate for that role.
Daniel Koo:Okay, so now you're kind of diving into this new industry in the media industry. Was it more or less similar kind of work that you did, or is it? Was it something that was completely new, building off of the stuff that you worked on before?
Pamela Haering:It was. It was similar in some ways. It was creative. It was about the numbers, you know, ratings, budgets, it was about all of those things. It was similar in that I was managing people again, which I love to do, love to work with different kinds of people and help them grow, and so that was similar.
Pamela Haering:But what was different was that I was working exclusively in a global marketplace, in markets, you know, in cable, and cable in the 80s and 90s was just bursting onto the scene and you weren't even born yet, probably, but it was just bursting onto the scene and it was run by a very young group of executives, very creative, very visionary, very entrepreneurial environment. There were no set ways of doing things and often you were sent off to just figure it out, just do it. We need to get this done. And what I was supposed to figure out was how to sell media. You know how to market media internationally in very diverse marketplaces Japan and in South America and you know, going to Germany and Paris, throughout Europe and all those markets were nothing was the same about them and doing it without ratings. So at that time there were no international rating points, which is how you would tell people are watching your show Right.
Pamela Haering:And so what I ended up doing was I started developing these consumer.
Pamela Haering:I was using my consumer marketing experience and started with the consumer you know of of a certain brand. And and I said, you know, if we create a platform that is delivered through our media, through, we can run it across Cartoon Network and it can be on, you know, turner Classic Movies. It can be on, you know, cnn and it will show up in different ways because you have this very broad target marketplace. Why don't we do that? And instead of spending some money with other cable networks, spend it all with us and we'll create something that's really integrated and we'll run right through all the assets of this. You know be in Time magazine, it'll be, you know, all assets of the organization. And so that idea to work in that way came from a senior executive at Time Warner Turner at the time, and he and because I was doing that anyway internationally he was looking at it on, you know, I was doing that in the international markets. He's like we got to do that in the United States.
Pamela Haering:Right, like, how are you all of a sudden, people are buying this media because it had all this stuff attached to it and it it looked really interesting and it was making their dollar go further and their consumers buy their products. So we created this group internally on a globe. It was a global is called Turner Global Marketing Solutions Group, and so we started working with across the globe in this way in the United States as well as internationally, and I joined that group and so it was really amazing to see the difference that integrated marketing could make for a client where they were spending their money disparately across you know, I'm going to buy a little ESPN. I'm going to buy a little. You know, cbs, I'm going to buy a little NBC and you know, this will we'll, this will, we'll put this together, and their internal people would put that together for them. But it wasn't against a client driven, like their client driven marketing platform.
Pamela Haering:And with that it made so much more sense why people would see it one place and it would play the same way and across you know the aisle that on you know another property of Time Warner, turner. And so, anyway, we started having success selling this way and it was it's never been done before in the media marketplace never. And CBS noticed it. And CBS is like wait a second. And so I got a call from the head of sales at CBS and they said we'd like you to come do this at CBS. And I said you know we're just getting started, you know I'm not sure. And we had this whole back and forth and eventually he said I want you to create it, I want you to run it and create and run the whole thing.
Pamela Haering:So I found a partner, they found a partner, they found a partner I think they put us together, another woman and we ended up running that division at CBS. It became Viacom shortly after we joined. So a year after we started doing the work at CBS, cbs merged with Viacom and that just was like the best news for us, because all of the brands that we could pull in to play against these ideas we were creating, just like tripled, you know we could, just there were so many more and it was in every single space in the media marketplace. So it was print and out of home and cable and network and radio. It was amazing.
Daniel Koo:I can definitely see your passion, you know in this, in this space, and your work, and I think it's amazing what you were able to achieve. I want to know, you know, if you had, you know, obviously you were able to orchestrate this. You know, with the resources that you had, what were some of the kind of you know, if you had any mentorship or if you had any resources that you know you found very useful in achieving this and being able to orchestrate this. What are some things you relied on at this point?
Pamela Haering:Well, some of the things I evaluated some of these moves based on and this is a really important piece of advice I always give to people make sure you know who you're working for. It was good to people. Make sure you know who you're working for, right like if you have the opportunity to change jobs and you know that you can work for really innovative, creative, risk-taking, great managers who care about growing, you take it, you know, and so I was lucky that you know I looked at that hard and it was hard to leave some situations where I had really great managers cultivating, helping to cultivate me, and I had a chance to go where I felt like I could continue to learn with some great mentors in the space, real innovators, I mean. When I was doing this work, as I said, cable was just like what, what's that, where is that and how does that work and how do I get me some? It was really funny.
Pamela Haering:And so the people that were taking these risks had a lot of great experience, and so they were very calculated risks, but they were visionary and I was able to learn from them. And how do they evaluate something? How, you know, how do they know that something's going to work? It's not, it's not just gut right, it's. It's like what are you really looking for? And and doing a merger or finding this, you know, working with this client or whatever it was at the time, and and so, yes, I had a lot of mentorship. I had a lot of mentorship. I had a lot of great mentors, really smart people, really innovative, innovative, all quite young, you know, in these spaces and so very relatable and very vested in the growth of people like me. That works for them. So I'm super thankful for that.
Daniel Koo:If you have any advice around how to find those kinds of mentors like did you find them externally? Did you find them within your company? Do you have any advice on how to find those kinds of mentors Like did you find them externally? Did you find them within your company? Do you have any advice on how to find those mentors?
Pamela Haering:Yeah, ear to the ground, you really have to be intentional about the way that you want to curate your career.
Pamela Haering:I think you know it would have been easy to just go okay, a new opportunity, I'll go, you know. But I was always thinking about that person that was interviewing me and I would always ask can I meet some other people on the team? I'd love to. I'll come back in. You know, I'd love to meet some other people on the team.
Pamela Haering:In this position, this position, I'd like to meet the people I'm going to be managing and so really kind of taking the time with the process was key. Also, ear to the ground, like you know in an industry who is at the top of their game, you know, like, who is a great manager, great at cultivating people. You know really good at the work that they do and for what reasons. And so really having an ear to the ground and not being afraid to step into hey, can I, can we have coffee? Can I? I'll bring coffee to you. Can I meet you in your office for 20 minutes? I I'd really love that, especially once you're in an organization, spreading out in that organization, and I have daughters who are just in this space and I'm like who are you talking? To Make sure you're networking with people, because that's how you'll never you don't know what you're going to hear who you're going to meet or who's going to inspire you, who they know, you know, and so really keeping an ear to the ground, really being kind of externally facing in terms of meeting people outside of your little group and no matter how busy you're getting, like make the time and then you know, just really looking.
Pamela Haering:You know, at that time we had these industry magazines. Now they're all digital, but you know who's doing what like. Who am I always reading about, you know, and what are they doing and are they a good person? You know, are they? Are they a good manager? And and just trying to find out about them. And so that was a lot of it is really being intentional about how you're learning, about you know what's available to you in the industry, who is worth working for and who is not so good to work for. So you know, it's really a lot of not being afraid to step up into those conversations. You feel like man, I'm 23. Like, should I really be asking the division head?
Pamela Haering:I got to be kind of ridden that way of like. I love that, like any kid who comes to me and says I really want to. I love that and and I think most are very honored to be asked for their opinion or their insights and they want to foster the next generation of you know great leaders and I think most would welcome that. So never be afraid you'd be surprised. They'll probably ask you out for coffee for the second one you know, because they were so interested in what, who you are and what you want to do oh, that's fantastic advice.
Daniel Koo:Um, you know I I'm looking back now and like how many people that I could have talked to that I haven't you know, I know. I know that, you know I'm trying hard really right now to, you know, talk to everyone I can, but you know, back in college days or maybe just out of college it was, it's very intimidating you know and you don't know what to talk about and you don't know if they even want to talk to you.
Pamela Haering:But it seems like, from your experience, people love helping each other and as long as you're looking at the right mentors, they're going to be very open to helping you, surprisingly within your friend groups you know as young executives who they may have met along the way, or who adults or professors or family members know, and just never be afraid to say, hey, do you think they talk to me and I'm sure you're going to get back? Yeah, they'd love to and I'll put you in touch tomorrow. So, yeah, I think that's it's really important and I think it's the hardest thing sometimes for young people to do.
Daniel Koo:At least, that's what I'm noticing more about like how do you maintain a career while being a parent, while being a mother. I think that kind of advice is invaluable to people who are wondering if they can even do that. You know, does the math work out? Do you have enough time? So, do you have any insights into being a parent and trying to maintain a career?
Pamela Haering:I have so many insights. This is like a hot button for me. Because, my life the way it happened. For me, it was a choice. I had twins.
Daniel Koo:I had twins, I see.
Pamela Haering:So they came into the world with a bang and they were little and premature and they needed a lot of attention and so I needed to stop working. And it was right. I was probably 36 years, 37 years old when I had them. So I was an older mom, I had a great career and I had. I took a lot of pride in the fact that and comfort in the fact that you know I had had these opportunities and I had done these things and that was awesome. You know, that was really great, that I had done these things and that I could think about sitting, settling down and having a family.
Pamela Haering:But I have to tell you I wasn't necessarily ready. As much as I wanted these children like more than anything, and it was such a gift to have them I wasn't necessarily ready to give up the other end of it. But because they needed so much at that time, I had to leave my job, this job that you're hearing, that I love so much. And that was the final job at Viacom, when I was running that division, and luckily my partner could take over that division because she thought my leaving was going to be temporary, and so did I, and she would tell our clients, you know, oh, she's coming back, she's coming back, you know, and she kept running hard and um, and she kept that, that division going for a long, long time but, um, I, I stopped totally. So it was like going from a hundred miles an hour every day on four planes a week to literally like no sleep.
Pamela Haering:You know, babies have needs, you know, and that was hard and um, and so I didn't necessarily choose for it to happen the way that it did, but I, I chose to have a family and and that's what it required and I was all in right, and so I stopped working for two years, um, until they started taking this really long afternoon nap and and I started, I, some people that I have worked with at time, warner Warner they asked me if I wanted to join them in developing this idea that they had, and so it was my first kind of entrepreneurship gig.
Pamela Haering:I had done entrepreneurship Like I had started Divisions Insight, but I had never done anything externally. And we started this great little company that was all about creating hard to access, exceptional experiences for groups of women, because we could see this dynamic of, you know, women really needing women and the role that that played, and not just to have a glass of wine together, but to do something, to learn something you know and and to have access to things they wouldn't normally be able to access. And it was.
Pamela Haering:That was a great experience, but that was my first entrepreneurship and I did it when the babies were napping, because my husband had a job that was very demanding and took him out of the state often and he was traveling a lot, and so I did that. But as that was happening, I got an opportunity to take on a consulting gig. So I was asked to help be the marketing person for an independent school that was launching in Southern California in the early 2000s and it was an unusual school because it was focused on. This is where my interest in mentoring comes back into play. It was focused on making sure that there was a truly integrated, culturally, socioeconomically, a truly integrated school that pulled from like 72 different zip codes around Los Angeles that might be an exaggeration, but almost every zip code and they had set aside an endowment to make sure that those students who couldn't afford to go would always be able to attend this private school and have this life-changing experience. And as a part of the marketing, you know, and trying to understand. So first we externally did a lot of external marketing. You know the school to understand, so first we externally did a lot of external marketing. You know the school has arrived, it's different than anything you've ever seen and it launched and is still in, you know, still thriving.
Pamela Haering:They asked me to do some internal research and I was able to work with the first gen families to make sure that they were getting everything they wanted to get out of this experience and that it was working for them. And so, sitting with these families and learning what this opportunity meant to their families, many of them were not from the United States, many of them didn't understand the school system here, but they knew it was good and they wanted their kids in it, you know, and the appreciation and the life-changing experiences that they had were probably one of the most moving experiences of my life. You know, to have the chance to talk to them. Some of them be able to have the honor of going into their homes and meeting these families and they would talk about how it changed the way that they you know they were reading books and book clubs now and they changed the way that they ate and because their child went to the school and came home with these ideas and then it was changing the family. And now the family, like the kids in the family who never thought they would go to college, are thinking wow, you showed me that I can go to college like I, this is a possibility for me.
Pamela Haering:So the cousins were going to college and then they come back and talk to the community. Then the whole community was uplifted, like just knowing that it's possible, right. So that was that was what flipped on this light for me. That was like I have to get involved. I had to do more of this work, like, and I have to. And I supported that school. I worked with that school in different capacities for 11 years and helped them with their strategic plans, helped them with their marketing plans, like, did everything for the school.
Pamela Haering:Yeah, and it was just amazing the outputs that they had, the success that they had with all the students from all walks of life. They all went on to do wonderful things. But to see these families who never could, even had vision for it they just didn't have vision and getting them to see what it could do for them was really that's the thing that really lit me up. That's the thing that really lit me up. And so, um, all the board work that I had done there and in other places, my focus was always access, you know, um, getting access to for everybody, to these types of schools and um, and that when you're ready for it, you me. But that's what led me to kind of my next pivot.
Daniel Koo:Yeah, no, I was just going to say. You know, in your early years you know you had a strong focus on education and you also mentioned that that was a unique experience in your hometown. And you know there's this part of you where you know you had a fantastic career. You experienced the height of it. By doing that, you know how the workplace works, you know how the corporate systems work and you also learn marketing skills, which is invaluable to any. You know any industry, any institution and you know, after having your children, it became a natural pivoting point to you know a different kind of field where you feel fulfilled in a different way. Yeah, and it seems like through that you, you know you eventually now arrive at EdAccess, where you know you're doing something I guess is the most fulfilling to you. So I'd be happy to talk about EdAccess and for you, I guess, what is the most important thing? That EdAccess does that changes people's lives?
Pamela Haering:EdAccess is relatively new. It started as an idea that I developed when I was at that school in Southern California. I was doing that work as a kind of a solitary consultant and I could see that there were issues with hiring people like my rate at that time. You know, if I were to charge you couldn't do it, and so I reduced it to almost nothing and sometimes I often did things for free so often did things for free and I love that because it really helped them to grow in ways that they couldn't have without it. You know, and in sustain and that was so gratifying, like, that was so wonderful and the teams of people that I worked, with their openness and almost at times pulling me onto teams, I felt like I was a part of their team, even though I was sort of working from the outside. And it was never about how much money I could make as a consultant. It was about making this difference, which was palpable, and you asked me what kind of difference do you make? You know, like and and it was really a their ability to sustain, their ability to now make really strategic choices and how they're going to grow.
Pamela Haering:Um, sometimes it had to do with um, operational pieces of their organization or their boards.
Pamela Haering:You know, really helping them develop their boards and it's hard to go from a startup to an advisory board, to more of a board that is focused on making sure that this organization has financial sustainability and, and so what kind of people do we need to do that?
Pamela Haering:And and I had served on and still do serve on many educational boards, and so I've seen a lot of that and work through a lot of those issues and and so just being able to help them and whatever, whatever it was, you know I'm just like, yeah, happy, happy to do it, and it's so satisfying to see these organizations thrive. You know, just really have the roadmap that they've been looking for but didn't know how to put together, or knew they needed but couldn't find the resources to do it at an affordable price, and so that that has been incredibly gratifying, like just wonderful to be able to do that work and that's the impact it makes. Now, trying to measure that impact when there's so many things that affect a school's ability or an organization's ability to sustain, but clearly, without the strategic work, it wouldn't have happened.
Daniel Koo:So it's really an honor to be able to do this work at this phase of my life vulnerable and, you know, giving you know your talents for free and to be able to really make a change in those communities by doing that, and I think that's something that we should all aspire to be like. You know it's. There's obviously a time to focus on yourself, but, you know, after that you have to start looking out and see what kind of positive impact you want to leave on this world, and I hope, you know this podcast is something like that too. You know, by having you on this podcast, there's going to be so many people, you know, learning from your life experiences that I'm hoping will, you know, leave a positive impact.
Pamela Haering:Well, daniel, I love what you're trying to do here and I find that this is a gap. You know I'm always looking for the gap to fill the gap. This is a gap Like it is. It's hard to know and it's hard to find a job, first of all, right out of school, for example. Second of all, it's hard to know what you should be looking for. You know, so many people are driven only by the dollars, right, and you know I have to pay off my loans. I have to oh my gosh, I have accountabilities with my family and it's all true.
Pamela Haering:But what I've learned is do what you love, really, take time to take stock in what you love and I tell my daughters this all the time like, make sure you're doing what you love. That comes really organically from you and if you're great at it, the opportunities come to shift or move or get you closer. But stay true to what motivates you, who you are, and the opportunities will come. I've seen too many people. I could have been on that list, right, I could have become a lawyer, I could have gone to law school, I could have and never felt it like, never loved it in the way I wanted to love something, felt it like, never loved it in the way I wanted to love something, and so I try to give that advice when I can, because sometimes, you know, I have one daughter who's working in nonprofit. It's not like it's the biggest paying job, you know, but it's what she loves. She wants to have that kind of impact, you know, and kind of in the environmental sustainability space, and she wants that, and so she loves it.
Pamela Haering:My other daughter, who has a very artistic bent to her, she actually loves where I started. You know, she loves being on the creative side of things and she loves strategic work at the same time. It's so funny, and so she's found a place to be where she can be super creative and in the media industry, and so she's. But it's not they didn't choose those because they could make the most money. They know that they need to sustain themselves and they're doing that, but, but it's they're doing something that they love and I hope that they will also see that the opportunities that come when you get good at what you do and use those things that you learn along the way. I mean, I've taken what I've learned from day one and I'm using it tomorrow and I used it today, right. I think that's really important that you're always learning, that you're not just doing a job to do it or to bring home. You're doing it because you want to learn and you want to be able to learn skills that you love employing to help others where you can.
Daniel Koo:Yeah, I think that's fantastic advice for the younger generation, the people who are looking to find their path and are just struggling and just not sure what the next step is.
Daniel Koo:And these people might be. You know, people like me were like I already have a job, but you know, I'm just looking at my future. I just worried about my future. I'm like am I going to be doing something that's meaningful? You know, that's that's a thought that we always kind of have in the back of our minds. So, thank you so much. One other advice that I would want to hear from you is what would you say to your younger self if you could to encourage or, to you know, really guide yourself to the right path.
Pamela Haering:I would say never, never, never be afraid and, in fact, seek expertise and knowledge from other people. Like, don't be afraid. We talked about this a little while ago, so I won't go into it too long, but don't be afraid to have those conversations.
Pamela Haering:Assume they want to talk to you. Don't assume that they don't want to talk to you and don't have time for you, even though they're really busy and really important. Assume they want to talk to you, make the ask, follow up and ask them if there's anybody else you should talk to. You know, is there anybody else that I can talk to as well that you think would be helpful to me as I'm thinking about where I'm going? And so we all have these people.
Pamela Haering:No matter where you are in your life and in the world, there are people around you that you can learn from. Always be a student. Never be, never assume you're the master, ever. Always be a student, and I think that's why I ended up going back for my degree so late. You know this degree in education so late because I am always a student and always believe that you have something to learn from everyone, and you will be surprised where that takes you. You know the people that you'll meet and the things you'll be exposed to that you didn't even know existed. The jobs are out that you didn't know existed. So ask for the meeting, ask for who else you can talk to. Don't be afraid and assume that they want to talk to you Because you're their future too. So that's what I would say.
Daniel Koo:To summarize a little bit about what we talked about today. Some of the key things I'm learning is follow your gut feeling. There was your time of trying out this law career going to firms, internships and things like that but it just didn't sit well with you, like you just knew that it wasn't a path for you. Even if you're you aren't able to fully pick out a moment when you didn't like it, you know it's something that you just know, you know as a gut feeling.
Daniel Koo:Another thing that I'm learning is mentorship, and you know in the sense of networking, right. So you're looking to go out and talking to people that you know you feel like you don't have access to. You know you're talking to people that seem way out of your league in terms of you know maybe corporate structure right of you know, maybe corporate structure right, but I think that is fantastic advice. You know like we have to assume that they want to talk to you as well, that they're excited to you know, teach someone about the things that they know. One last thing I'm learning is you know follow your passion, and the reason is that it'll give you a lot of meaning in your life later.
Pamela Haering:It seems like Well said, well said Daniel.
Daniel Koo:Not only because it's fun, but I think you know you've followed your passion for ed access and you know helping out with schools with your, with your high. You know really valuable skills, so, and I think that's creating so much fulfillment and so much meaning in your life that that's something that I aspire to get and I really want to experience. So thank you so much for your insights today. I really learned a lot and you know, I hope we stay connected and I'm really excited to see Ed Access. You know pan out and roll out.
Pamela Haering:Thank you, yeah, thank you Well, I appreciated the chance to get to talk to you and to get to know you a little bit better too, daniel, and I look forward to listening to not mine but other wonderful podcasts that you do going forward. It's really great what you're trying to do and you are trying to make an impact. You are trying to create access and kind of interest. You know, spark people's interest by using those who have kind of walked these paths already, and it's a brilliant idea and I think the next generation, I mean, can use it. You know, and from generations to come, I wouldn't be surprised if people in my generation, they could benefit from what you're doing here as well, and so I mean, everybody pivots every now and again, and so thank you for the good work you're doing in the world too.
Daniel Koo:Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for the kind words. I really appreciate that. I knew we were a great match because, you know, I think what you do matches so much with the mission of this podcast, you know, which is to provide, you know, these conversations to people who might not have access to the mentors that you know that I may have access to. So, thank you so much, I really appreciate it.
Pamela Haering:Of course, of course. Thank you, daniel. Thanks for watching.